the whole point of being homosexual is to be with your own type, right??? what you are using is an excuse to prove your point. that just adds another variable, YOU COULD do this or that... If tommorow 100% of the world starts being gay( i mean always with their own partner), how would you reproduce? test tubes, surely that wasnt an option back in Mohammad(pbuh's) time.
YOU brought up this scenario where x COULD happen and if x happened then y COULD happen. turkey basters? If the demise of humanity is really a problem, does the means to the solution really matter?
No, why aren't they <i>policing</i> more of the mistreatment of employees/servants that I brought up earlier? Why isn't the legal system stronger in this area? I realize that many of the people that are mistreated are not Muslims and have less in regards to human rights. But, with some Muslims not following Islam in regards to the treatment of others, shouldn't that be motivation enough for the Sharia legal system to do something? One could view it as protecting the rights of people...........it could also be viewed as punishing the Muslims who are not following the religion. If it comes down to protecting Saudi Muslims first because the wronged parties are foreigners and often not Muslims, then why did I get lectured so strongly about keeping the presence of other religions out of the public view in Saudi Arabia? If Saudi Arabia is: 1) <i>Defender/Protector of the Two Holy Mosques</i> 2) The destination for those making the <i>Haj</i> 3) To be kept free from the outside influence of other religions then shouldn't the country - people take some pride in trying to live the true Islamic life (the <i>religion</i>)?
I always thought that it was God's role to punish sinners, not man's. Who are you to judge what someone else does? I have very close gay friends even though I do not agree with their lifestyle. It isnt my place to judge them.
exactly....although I dont agree that being gay automatically makes you a sinner...but still...it isnt man's place to judge...if it is indeed a sin in God's eyes...then let him judge.... adeel, comeone man...you can do better than that...you keep responding by turning around the statement you are answering without adding anything to it.. My opinion of the debate between learned and genetic is based upon knowing several homosexual folks (mainly friends of my cousin who is gay) and having discussions about this....to a man, they all relayed stories of attractions to the same sex from early on....and not a one of them had access to anyone else gay...back then(when they were growing up) it wasnt openly discussed, and wasnt as widely seen in the press/media/tv/movies. So...considering those factors....just exactly where do you think those young men and women learned their gayness?? now....lets see if you can respond with a actual point this time...
if your claim that you cant be gay and muslim is accurate and muslim law applies only to muslims than is it right for muslim courts to decide the punishment of a gay person, who cannot possilby be muslim? regarding the quote, i knew that was too easy, but what about the fact that there is homosexuality in nature? its been well documented in many species of animals. god made those gay animals, didnt he?
ah seinfeld, you taught us so much! the invaision of india occurred at the same time as the "moops" invasion of spain. taken together, this was on a much larger scale than the crusades.
Its just like you cant be a child molestor and a muslim, or a terrorist and a muslim, but ppl that are these things and claim to be muslims are teh ones that are punished under islamic shariah. I guess thts another reason its not allowed, there should be a difference between Humans and Animals. Animals also dont get married, and the have sex with more than one partner, surely you dont expect those animals to be lashed for their "crimes". Islam was made as a way of life for Humans, not animals.
Animals? i cant explain that honestly, but it could jst as well be a part of their imagination that they are saying these stories just to fit in. MAybe they never had homo tendencies, but later on realized yay, i want to be gay, and just to fit in, they claim that they had these tendencies from the beginning.
Many of the women that are brought over are bandladeshi/indonesian/philipino and indian muslims, so its not happening against just non muslims. The reason its not being policed better is because you never hear of any such crime until long after the crime has been committed and its been over with. They should definately have some more investigations on this, but trust me this whole thing going public is a recent thing. It was on the downlow for a lot longer. We often heard these stories, but never were they documented till recently. So I truly hope that King fahad/prince abdullah do investigate into this horrendous crime a lot more, but again if the victims dont report it till they leave the country, how will the assailant ever be tried.
are you suggesting that people try to act gay to "fit in"? being gay would seem to have to opposite effect. you are flaunting the conventions of society, not fitting in with them. i can imagine some 16 year old kid thinking "hmm...being gay seems really cool. i think i would like to get harrassed and have my ass kicked everyday at school by some redneck idiot just for being gay". why would anyone choose this? you keep alluding to this idea that if these harsh laws were not in place than everyone would be gay and there would be no more babies. are muslims that insecure in their sexuality? if these laws are lifted are all you muslim guys suddenly going to turn gay on us? im going to assume no. i would guess that you wouldnt have any more muslim homosexuals than you do already.
once again, I will point out that unlike the common misconception, being gay is not some cool, hip, in-thing to do in this country...you will still for the most part be looked down on and discriminated against for being gay by the general public and government... why in god's green earth would someone WANT to fit into that??? being gay means never being able to live a normal life in normal society since the majority of people still think that being gay is a sin or just wrong.. and besides, i can speak for those that I know...and I will tell you that they dont mess around with their opinions...they tell it like it is...right or wrong...I dont see them doing anything but telling the truth as it applies to them. still waiting for a nice fact based argument against being gay. (that doesnt involve what some guy wrote in a book 2 thousand years ago)
could someone give me their take on this? if this is the only place in the koran where allah condems homosexuality than is this one instance justification for treatment of gays?
"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81 "What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, and leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk." Qur'an 26:165 The Hadith and homosexuality: The Hadith are collections of sayings attributed to Muhammad. Many Hadiths (ahadith) discuss liwat (sexual intercourse between males). Two examples are: "When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes." "Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive partners in gay sexual intercourse) There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior mentioned in the Hadith: "Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) among them." Treatment of homosexuals within Islamic countries: bullet The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted. bullet The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted bullet The Sha'fischool of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act. -- "There are many reasons why it is forbidden in Islam. Homosexuality is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is a main cause of one of the most harmful and fatal diseases. It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women. Homosexuality deprives a man of his manhood and a woman of her womanhood. It is the most un-natural way of life. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of family life."
yes it is every advanced for two men/women to have sexual relationships. it is very very backwards for someone to question that at all. I guess bush and many many other Americans are just as backwards as Islam. Heck aren't many of these americans christian, i guess christianity is just as backwards as islam
yep, go ahead and post your great escape DD, "All religions are crap".... just because I just showed you that Islam isnt the only religion that approves of violence towards Homosexuals, you will now say that all religions are written by god blahblah blah Early in the 4th century AD, Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire. From this point begin the sufferings of homosexuals on a world scale. 324 AD. A decree of the Emperor Constantius imposed the death penalty for sodomy. 390 AD. Valentian instituted death by burning, a mode of execution which recalled the punishment meted out by Yaweh to Sodom and Gomorrah. 395 AD. An edict of Theodosius banned all religions other than Christianity. Loyalty to the State demanded loyalty to the tenets of the Christian religion, including its code of morality. Here begins the equation: heresy = treason, an equation which in time will become three-way: homosexuality = heresy = treason. 529 AD. Justinian the Great closed the Platonic Academy in Athens, thus putting an end to classical learning. The Academy had flourished for nearly a thousand years. 538 AD. Justinian codified Roman law. He prescribed torture, mutilation, and castration for homosexuals. His edict, Novella 77, condemned sodomites to death "lest, as a result of these impious acts, whole cities should perish together with their inhabitants", a reference to the Sodom and Gomorrah myth. The edict spoke of "diabolical and unlawful lusts" and reasoned that because of such crimes there are famines, earthquakes and pestilences.
