Couple of points about cost: The per person costs of the universal plan 'should' be less since a greater population would be covered. This assumes manditory participation, and that whatever inefficiencies there are in a government-type system would be offset by economies of scale etc. Your private premiums would be less since there would be a 'base' level service covered by the universal system. Don't know if it would be covered by a SS type deduction, or through tax revenue. Those are the things that have to be worked out. An SS type deduction would only affect those who have employment earnings, which may or may not be fair. Your employer could cover 75%, 100% or whatever portion of the private plan they chose. Same as today. (Am I wrong? Is there a law requiring employers to sponsor 75% of a private plan??? -- I really don't know). Small business would have better chance of competing since they wouldn't have such a large healthcare cost. Independent contracting would be more viable too. Cost and service levels are huge issues with a univeral plan. They are the flip side of the 'right' of everyone to have care. It would be cool if, in a country as wealthy as the US the debate was on how to viably provide access to adequate care for everyone rather then whether that access should be provided at all.
Numbers are added by me: 1. It will be less per person cost, but the corporations will no longer be paying out on these plans. The .gov will. That sounds fair. 2. Private premiums will skyrocket. Less participation. If it relies on the "NHS" it is not private. 3. There are laws requiring benefits for employers. I dunno what the % is I was just going off of what my first job paid. 4. Small business would be in trouble because the rise of costs of private insurence. If you have a software startup company and want to hire 5 PhD's they are gonna expect good healthcare. (ie something they don;t already get for free) the big guys will offer it to their top guys, the small guys won;t be able to afford it.
Casey: I'll disagree with you on private premiums, and on the effect to small business. The private premiums are covering less since your basic services are otherwise covered. And health insurance becomes less of a factor to many who'd consider working at a startup if they are assured that their base care is covered. To some the 'better' plan would be important...to others the opportunity, the type of work, or the pay will be more important. But either way, we're quibbling about the cost details of whatever 'top up' plan that may or may not be provided. We agree that universal coverage would be expensive. It always is. Is that your primary concern? The cost?
1. you're right, it is a skewed sample. it's europeans who are living here, now. followed jobs or education here, for the most part; 2. you're arguing with the wrong guy! i said i support the idea of some sort of nationalized health care..i agree with you that it's a big problem.
Yes because in our history as a nation the majority of costs rests on the shoulders of middle class home owners. And in this case these people are the ones who already have health coverage. So these people pay more for less. And like i said before the NHS has a "private" system like you are talking about. You still must go through the NHS refferal system and have extreme wait times. If you do not seperate the cost from the NHS you will not offer any upgrade in service.
I don't know exactly how it works. But I have one friend from the UK and one from Spain. Both were offered private insurance through their jobs/families back home. They said they didn't have real wait periods with that. And it was significantly cheaper than it is here in the US. Particularly so in Spain, if I remember correctly. The chap from the UK says there is a shortage of doctors there, though. That they're trying to bring in doctors from all over the world...and lessening their standards to allow more in.
Right but that PRivt plan is based on the NHS. ITs a little upgrade and thats what the workers would have. It is not completely seperated from the main NHS and using NHS resources.
i rationale for privates raising in price, but i lean toward the idea that they would be lower. not only b/c the basics are covered but as casey said their would be less participation, so it would seem that to gain more participation the strategy of offering cheaper rates would help. then you get into whatever pricing model maximizes return. like mentioned, thats sort of the details. doctors are also an important issue. healthcare doesnt mean squat if you dont have the doctors to provide it. bnb, mentioned whether cost was the concern and i think thats part of it, but level of service is also a very important one as well. cheap healthcare shouldnt mean cheap service...and im not talking about bargains
The lack of universal healthcare is barbarism. That's really all there is to it for me. Y'all can crunch numbers all you want - the fact that people who are born poor are expected to suffer when the cure for their condition is right down the street from them - is barbarous.
Actually, I sorta agree with the 'sink or swim' mentality, but I think my version would be difficult to implement. It would involve intelligence tests. The system would be socialized completely, but it wouldn't be overburdened because only the most intelligent people would receive full coverage. So, essentially, a kid with the good grace to be born wealthy wouldn't necessarily receive care (if he's dumb), and someone with the poor foresight to be born into poverty might receive immediate and full coverage (if he's smart). It'd be a great way to make sure those who are most deserving of medical care receive it, and those who aren't adequately intelligent don't waste our time and money. Good plan?
Lack of universal healthcare should not mean that the States shouldn't have welfare healthcare. But when the government pays for it, the government gets to decide who gets it. I don't want the government deciding my healthcare. But whenever the Government does decide it knows better than I do about healthcare, I'm investing large sums of money in healthcare companies that build hospitals in Matamoros and Nuevo Laredo.
