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[SI] The Unexpected Greatness of Framber Valdez

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by lnchan, Sep 15, 2022.

  1. Amshirvani

    Amshirvani Contributing Member

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    god I miss Lunhow
     
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  2. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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  3. Yordan The Great

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    Usually he's very balanced on his delivery, but I love it when he finishes like in this video as if to admire the greatness of his pitch and wait for the strike call to be rung up.
     
  4. Yordan The Great

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    I just remember when he first was called up and I kept asking why is this schmuck even on the roster?

    Now he's my favorite pitcher to watch.
     
    everyday eddie and JeeberD like this.
  5. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    He's essentially Keuchel with a 96 mph fastball.
     
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  6. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    Way better pure stuff across the board than Keuchel.

    Dallas was pure soft tossing lefty with impeccable control. He'd pound the outside lower corner with his sinker, change up and slider. If he wasn't getting a friendly zone he was ineffective.

    Framber gets way more swing and misses than Keuchel ever did. His control has gotten significantly better over time, but Keuchel was a master at pinpoint control.
     
    #46 xcrunner51, Nov 23, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
  7. rhino17

    rhino17 Member

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    I'm generally a casual baseball fan, although I followed the astros really closely this year. I think Framber is my favorite player to watch, ever.
     
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  8. Yordan The Great

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    I just love his facial expressions and especially when he comes off the mound after getting a strikeout for out #3. He's a gem. The shyt eating grin on his face is priceless.

    .
    Someone should do a meme of him jumping over the dugout rails after the three-run bomb by Alvarez to seal the deal.

    It looks a lot like the Michael Phelps meme that became so famous. He went that crazy.
     
  9. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    Framber when locked in and pounding the zone is the best pitcher in baseball. It’s extremely fun to watch even as a diehard fan. His stuff is soooo sooo good.
     
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  10. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I actually think Javier is the best in baseball when he's dialed as shown by his results over his last 6 starts. No player in baseball history has gone that many games with no more than 2 hits and no runs per game. A total of 7 hits and 1 run over a 6 game span and 34 innings
     
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  11. the shark

    the shark Member

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    And they're both Astros:D
     
  12. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    Crazy thing is he has clear room to improve. He could use a solid third pitch and could go deeper into games.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Not sure a below average 3rd pitch is really required, given that he can go 6 strong with his one elite pitch, and one above average pitch.

    His first strike ability/occasional lapse in command is what limits his ability to go deeper in games. He also gets a ton of strikeouts which will always drive up pitch counts vs. guys who generate ground balls.
     
  14. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    I was just going to say this.

    All Cristian needs to do is throw more strikes early in the count.

    He may also get more durable as he matures. He is only 25 so should still be growing into his adult strength. He is listed at 213 pounds but does not look as solid as Framber or Garcia.

    Currently opponents go from .507 to .601 OPS after pitch #75 and .513 to .684 OPS the 3rd time they see him in a game.

    Still very good numbers but ones that should naturally improve as he moves into his late 20s.
     
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  15. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    Oh for sure it's not required. People would take 150 IP of 2.5 ERA and 33% K rate every season no question.

    But c'mon, saying he could use better 3rd/4th pitches or go deeper in games is no slight at all.

    Framber is more valuable just having thrown 50 IP more.
     
  16. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Its not a slight... but sub-par/waste pitches aren't likely to get them deeper in games, and I think you underestimate how difficult it is to add a quality 3rd-4th pitch.

    New trend seems to be for pitchers to focus more on the pitches that are effective with better command/control and just get rid of the ones that never did much. We saw how this staff transformed Cole and did away with his sinking stuff. We saw how they transformed JV who doesn't throw changeups/curves as much as he used to.

    We saw LMJ learn the slider/cutter from McHugh... but I feel that was more in response to his arm trouble/injury and trying to extend his career as a starter (which I suppose he has, even if he's no longer the fastball/curveball pitcher they paid him to be).
     
  17. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    I remain skeptical about the long-term viability of a two-pitch strategy. There's not a lot of examples of long-term success, two pitch starters.

    I recognize its not easy. LMJ is a perfect case study. He's probably worked on 3-4 different varieties of change-ups and varied between the 4-seam and 2-seam FB, but usually just goes back to mashing the curveball button.
     
  18. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Does he? His curveball usage has gone down significantly since the TJ surgery... and possibly moreso now due to the flexor injury that probably will need surgery eventually. He was basically sinker/slider exclusively this season/post-season to RHB (and saves the curveball solely for LHB). Now that sort of predictability will catch up with him... and unfortunately did so in an awful way in game 3.

    Before we know it, he's going to be more of a junk-ball pitcher (sort of how Greinke evolved to be)... that's not a bad thing, but injuries and wear/tear sometimes force those sorts of adjustments.

    Randy Johnson did fine. Oswalt did fine (and at one point in the playoffs became a one pitch pitcher!).

    If they start lining up the invisiball with regularity, it will force him to do something different.
     
  19. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I think if he located his slider for strikes more, he would be pretty much unhittable. Heck, he's unhittable now for 6 innings. I don't think he needs to go deeper with the modern game. Neris, Montero, Pressley, Abreu and Stanek should get it done proven by the two no hitters and the 3 hit game shutout against the Yankees during the playoffs.
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Slider basically now serving as a changeup for him... and hitters get even more swing happy when they see a pitch thats possibly something other than the invisiball. If he hangs it or hitters just wait for it to stay in the zone, it could backfire. As it is, we know his fastball can be thrown in the zone and still produce elite results.

    Its very similar to how Randy Johnson had success (and he rarely through his slider for a strike)... but then again, he was a lefty who was 6'10, so he already had a built-in advantage vs. any batter whatsoever.
     

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