[SI] Rockets over Magic #10 greatest playoff UPSET???

that was my bad KD, I guess I couldn't understand ur post clearly... I am really sorry... it's just that I get really mad and I start firing at everybody when people take away credit from our great 94 & 95 rockets and when they dont mention Hakeem as a top player in all time...

I guess dream2franchise is right.. I missed the part...my bad..

 

I remember being on a bus when when i was 14, arguing against about 6 people on how great Hakeem was and the Rockets could have beaten them if they played...it was hell.

It's an argument that can never be won--but the passion is definately most appreciated from this side.

 

I remember dudes from San Antonio telling me how much better David Robinson and the Spurs were... and they happened to meet in the Western Conference Finals.

Guess who won that debate?

 

Listen

 

Sure I can. Because it's not a FACT. It's your OPINION. But the STATS (a.k.a. "FACTS") don't support your opinion. Give me something quantIfiable that shows he was rusty in the playoffs. You can't, cause there's nothing there. He was on point, and they still lost. Now, was Kukoc ineffective? Sure. Was Longley shut-down. Yes. But neither of those things are the result of MJ playing baseball, or any "rustiness".

Not trying to diminish what the Bulls accomplished at all. I just refuse to accept the Jordan apologists who want to diminish what the Rockets accomplished with excuses like "he was rusty." It's insulting to the franchise and the fans.

Well said.

 

i'd suggest to anyone who thinks Jordan wasn't rusty to watch him perform in the clutch during 1995 series vs Magic and than watch clutch time of any other big playoff game during 1996/97/98.

stats aren't worth a nickle. for example, Stephon Marbury is, along with Oscar Robertson, the only player in the history of NBA that has a career averages of 20+ PPG & 8+ APG. and what does that tell us?

 

you guys misread the article

it meant to say that

People were UPSET that the Rockets beat the Magic!

 

Kelly --

the condescension is cool and all...but...wait, no it's not.

look...you can say it's fact all you want. but the fact is he shot for a higher percentage than he did in the 3 successive years. you can tell me all you want how rusty he was and how he wasn't himself, but his production didn't miss a beat. and in fact, in many categories his production was better in 95 than it was in 96, 97 or 98.

here's my opinion that i'll dress up as fact...the bulls needed frontcourt help. they were overmatched. horace grant was playing for the other team. they found a replacement and kicked ass.

 

Difference between 94-95 Bulls and 95-96 Bulls:

Dennis Rodman

 

it wasn't that he was rusty as much as he wasn't in basketaball shape. his upper body was noticably bigger, he just didn't have the flexabilty that he usually had. it was pretty weird watching him. look at the tapes from the finals against the suns to the beginning games of his comeback. his upperbody is much bigger.

 

exactly. production from virtually everyone else is almost exactly the same.

 

This is the reason why I hate the Spurs. they gave Rodman away to the freaking Bulls...for Will Purdue. This was giving away the league's best rebounder for a bag of chips.

We wouldnt be talking about Jordan with 6 rings because of this crap trade.

 

I think the thing with re-watching the '95 games and saying he was rusty is that it is all about perception.

the perception in the Bulls championship years was that Jordan was beyond human, he carried his teams, did everything in the world to make sure they won. Every clip we see from those periods are of Jordan doing amazing things in the process to winning championships.

But even in those years, Jordan was making turn overs, getting the ball stolen from him while trying to go one on one against Drexler, and getting the ball blocked. But those clips aren't show, because they don't fit in with the story of the championships. Nobody pays attention to that because Jordan's other heroics, and the wins erase those plays.

In '95 when Jordan lost, his mistakes, and struggles become magnified. They are looked at, with extra attention. Jordan had been back in the league for part of the regular season, and then the post season. His stats have already been mentioned.

I don't believe the guy was rusty at all. I do believe he didn't have enough supporting cast out there, and I will agree that part of the problem was how Jordan wasn't able to work with the players the same way. I think that is different than rust, though.

 

i could not agree more. so we look back and say things subjectively like, "he was rusty." or "he wasn't clutch." we don't think about mistakes jordan made against the sonics in 96, for example. we gloss them over. because his team was good enough to overcome them.

we do that with lots of athletes. but with jordan, it's taken to a whole other level. he couldn't possibly have lost, right?

 

Jordan was scoring, but he was rusty. This is one of those times when stats don't tell the tale. The greatest player of all time was played by Nick Anderson, getting stripped in the clutch to lose the game. That event alone should seal the debate.

It was an upset. They get forgotten because they fell apart and broke up one year later, but that Orlando squad was nasty. Penny at his peak was a terror. Shaq couldn't play D (and never did learn how to), but no one could guard him, Grant was a workhorse and was a perfect 4. 3D was a sniper. Nick, pre-Game 1, was a strong 2 guard at both ends. That was a serious team that was supposed to be a dynasty.

And we killed them like George's pet mouse.

Evan

 

see, that's my point. we've gotten to a point where if jordan did something wrong ever than he must have been sick, rusty, old, tired, etc. it couldn't possibly be that he just got beat.

yeah..he threw in 31 ppg, shot really well and dished out about 5 assists per game...but he was rusty.

 

the bold and the beautiful

 

No one's saying that Jordan sucked. Jordan didn't suck when he was a Washington Wizard, but he very obviously wasn't MJ anymore. When MJ45 came back, he was exceptional, especially considering the 20 month layoff. But even Jordan himself knew that he was off compared to his former self and tried switching numbers during the Orlando series to break out. Yes, he was still an unstoppable scorer, as you've dropped the same two stats repeatedly to show. But that's not everything.

Evan

 

ok, so what else?

his assists/game were higher than they were in 96 or 98

he had 23 steals in just 10 games. as opposed to 33 in 18 the next season...or 30 in 19 the next year...or 32 in 21 the next

he had 14 blocked shots in those 10 games. as opposed to 6 in 18 the next season...17 in 19 games the next season...or 12 in 21 the next.

his free throw percentage was roughly the same, within 2% of the next three years.

he shot about 37% from the 3 point stripe. the next season he shot 40%. the next he shot 20%. the next he shot 30%.

he averaged 6.5 rebounds per game. the next saeson he averaged 4.9. the next he averaged 7.9. the next he averaged 5.1.