but domanick davis had a very productive second half of the season. in 04. so the offense was doing something right. and just to give you an example of how you have to look at the individual. davis had 4 fumbles in the first half of that season, he had none in the second. on the other hand carr threw 4 more interceptions in the second half of that season. something happened with carr during the second half of 04. not just the coaching.
If after 4 yrs Any of those QBs are *not* all-world Do you think they will be getting the soft pedal that Carr has gotten? Rocket River
Am I the only person here more excited about my upcoming fantasy football season than the upcoming Texans season? My biggest concern with the Texans is whether Andre Johnson will blow up this yr, warranting me to use a 4th round pick on him. I hope they do well but just haven't gotten into them I guess. Miss my Oilers.... Ok, flame me.
If they've had the worst offensive line and supporting cast in the history of the sport for much of those four years, I'll bet they will.
the worst offensive line in the history of football has been alright for davis. I know that's run blocking
And run blocking and pass blocking are completely different things. Additionally, pass blocking when the opposing defense knows you have to pass is also another completely different thing that bad offensive lines can't handle. As for your above post, it goes right in line with defenses adjusting to our quick out schemes, and covering D. Davis out of the backfield (which was basically our only 2 passing routes). It wasn't like Carr ever got time to drop back to pass... even when the offense was rolling. If Carr, at one point during his career, was able to do what the average QB is able to do on an average team (ie - drop back, survey the field, and make a throw) on just a 1/3rd of this team's plays... things could be different.
carr only got sacked 9 more times in the second half of 04. he just had a bad season. meanwhile davis put up over 800 yards. its not just about pass vs run blocking. carr was part of carr's problem.
Are u completely ignoring everything else? Are u honestly saying that in the second half of the season, Carr just started playing horribly (after playing at all-pro level during the first half), while Davis stepped up his game to a HOF pace? Defenses ADJUSTED... meaning, our offensive strategy no longer worked (meaning, no more quick outs... no more dink and dunk passes... no more quick slants... which is pretty much all it was). Sure, we ran the ball more... that's about all we could do. When we were forced to pass, bad stuff happened... teams were ready for it. Davis was solid... no doubt. Carr sucked, no doubt... but it wasn't as simple as one player playing better, and one playing worse. You can only run the ball so much before you have to pass... and that's where defenses were ready for us, and that's where the entire offense (QB, coaching, o-line) faltered.
your whole argument is subjective. your argument is carr had a bad season, therefore defenses must have adjusted, because it couldn't have been carr. you have no proof to back up your statements. so who's ignoring what. I'm setting out numbers. you're just making i up as you go along. your only proof that the team was bad is that carr was bad. I set out prooff that another offensive player, a fourth round pick rb, had an unbelivable year. you have no idea how teams adjusted, how the texans adjusted, and so on.
I have no problem with guys defending carr, it may have very well been all coaching, and all offensive. but you guys have no idea if carr is gonna take it to the next level. there is no proof, only one half season out of 4. the odds aren't in his favor. people talk about the old line, and the new coaching. well the new coaching hasn't revamped the old line all that much. you can't pump up the new coaching, criticize the old line, when the new coaching has faith in the old line apperantly.
My argument and your argument are one in the same. You're pointing out how Carr's numbers declined... I'm pointing out how opposing team's defenses, our lack of offensive talent, and lack of offensive coaching may have had something to do with that. You're using another player's performance (Davis') as some kind of proof that the coaching wasn't bad... a player who plays an entirely different position, a totally different dimension of the game (run vs. pass), and one who's performance may have had nothing to do with how this team could have been successful with a passing attack... mutually exclusive events. The league is littered with teams who have 1,000 yard backs, but don't end up doing much on offense. The league is also littered with pro-bowl RB's who aren't 1st round draft picks... so DD being a 4th round pick doesn't really make his performance all that astounding. Hell, in the end... Carr's 2004 was actually pretty good... it would have been better had he kept his pace up from the first half, but for a guy in his 3rd year in the league... with a team that had as little talent up front as they did... his progression was fine. Also, BOTH Carr and Davis end up regressing big-time in 2005... what was the biggest issue? Did both decide to become mediocre together? Did Davis decide to start fumbling the ball in order to help us get Bush? Did the fact that Davis was forced to carry an offense that couldn't pass (when he wasn't all that durable to begin with) actually contribute to his injury problems? Which is why they invested two 3rd round draft picks in the line? There aren't any perennial pro-bowl offensive lineman available year after year on the open market... the draft is the only place you can get them, and that they did. C'mon... do you honestly think the O-line is even close to being average? Name a worse O-line. Better yet, name a winning team that has a bad O-line that can't ever create a pocket for its QB.
Brad Lidge Also, people need to stop putting way too much stock in how one player on a FOOTBALL team is the difference between winning and losing. Historically, its shown that defensive lineman, offensive lineman, or the occasional "mastermind" coach have the best chance of turning a franchise around... QB's are somewhere in between. They can make the difference if everything is in place (good offensive system, talent with the line)... but its harder to go the other way (start with the QB... and build down to the line).
no, i think there are a few freaks like me out there defending brad lidge, but for the most part people are frustrated. carr is the face of the texans. he has been for 4 years. he's more closely identified with the team's success than lidge is with the 'stros. he's got a love/hate thing going on right now.
It had a lot to do with the fact that our coaching staff had NO IDEA how to combat the 'cover 2' defense, and the rest of the league knew it, so they played it almost exclusively against us. That's why Carr never threw the ball downfield. That plus the fact that he had about 2 seconds after the snap before the defense converged on his HEAD. I'm not sure what you guys are arguing about. No one is saying it's all the coaching staff's fault. There was plenty of blame to go around for 2-14. It wasn't all the coaching staff's fault, and it wasn't all Carr's fault. But when the shi'ite hits the fan, and it splattered ALL OVER the fan last year, coaches get fired, not QB's.
how about we put stock into him living up to first pick of the franchise status. one of the reasons he is so polarizing is he has been given a free pass so far by the press.
Doesn't apply the same when you're talking about an expansion team. You can bash the Texans for deciding to pick a QB first, without having other needed positions in place... but you put Carr on an established team, and I think you see better results in his development.
What does a free pass from the press have to do with what we as fans expect from him on any given year? I'm with imadrummer. You guys seem to be arguing as if this is a black and white issue. Sure people are optimistic about Carr. We have some reasons to be with the new coaching staff that includes a person, Kubiak, who is well known for working with QBs (something the previous regime did NOT have). Not a whole hell of a lot of Carr's previous seasonal stats gives reason to be overly optimistic, but he at least hasn't been totally terrible the entire time, giving reason to believe he has the potential to be that guy that we need. Echoing what ima said, it's not entirely Carr's fault, it's not entirely the O-line's fault, and it's not entirely the coaching's fault. They all shared the blame, but hopefull the new coaching staff can not only improve on the coaching aspect of that trio, but the other two sides as well.
