SI.Com-Rox one of five teams that have taken a step backwards this offseason

Well said.

 

I agree they are below average starters, but are still NBA caliber starting players.

DD

 

But Mcgrady 2006<<<<<<<<<< Mcgrady 2005

 

What???? How the heck do you come to that conclusion?

He has said he feels great with no pain and is what? 27 years old.....come ON !!!

He is just entering his prime.

DD

 

can you give one team other than the rockets who will be happy to start juwon

 

Boston
New Jersey
New York

Ok. There is three teams that do not have as good a power forward as JHo. There are some others as well but they have young players they are developing. Teams like Sea that have Collison and maybe not Wilcox. Charlette that has Okafor at the center and Morrison at the 3 or 4?

There are possibilities out there.

It is still a long time before the season but suppose a starter like Dirk goes down in December but is expected back in the middle of March. A team like Dallas might want someone like JHo to man the position until Dirk comes back.

It's not as if JHo is a 38 year old guy that can not play anymore. The guy is 33 and still has some game. He is a lot more efficient offensive player than a lot of other starting power forwards in the game.

 

No, no, and no. 3 strikes.

Boston started LaFrentz, who, granted, sucks as bad as Howard, but that was simply as a caretaker for Al Jefferson, who is much better than Howard (and played so last year) and who will be the starter this year in all likelihood. Howard wouldn't start there.

New Jersey started Nenad Krstic, a rising star in the league who's way, WAY better than Howard and will only get better. You'd have to be insane to think Howard was better than he was

New York out of need put Channing Frye at C rather than his natural position of PF last year - but he too is substantially better than Howard.

It's not even close.

 

Come on man. I thought this was a serious conversation.

Al Jefferson better than JHo? Oh Please. At least let the guy prove it. He may have potential and end up being better than JHo but what has he done yet? NOTHING. He has only stared 8 games in his 2 year career and is a foul machine. He is young and has potential but he certainly is not better than JHo today.

Nenad Krstic is a center. Plus how do you say he is better than JHo?
Is he a better scorer than JHo? No
Is he a better rebounder than JHo? No
Does he foul more than JHo? Yes ...Oh wait thats not a plus.
Is he a better defender? No

Channing Frye is another player that you are basing your argument on potential and not on what he has accomplished. Might he be better than JHo in the future? Yes. Is he better now? No.


Look I know JHo is not the ideal power forward for Yao Ming and I hope the Rockets can move him and aquire some one a little more prototypical but please remember that JHo for his career has averaged almost 36mpg .470f/g% over 7rpg almost 3apg and 16.7ppg

Don't confuse Juwan with a kid barely out of high school that has a hard time stying on the court because of fouls.

 

Boston has Al Jefferson
NJ has Collins
NY have Frye

But if you think Juwon should start ahead of those three guys then go ahead.

If the Rockets have one of those three guys, don't you think they will start them ahead of Juwon?

 

No I don't.

Why do you think those guys would start ahead of Howard? Because they are young? What have they done to make you think they are better than Howard at this stage of any of their careers.

 

Take off the stolen Juwan Howard sunglasses kid -- let's get serious for a second.

He has proven it, and he was better than Howard this season and last season.

Proof:

Jefferson /40 minutes first two seasons:
17.8 pts, 11.6 rbs, .513 fg% and 16.4 PER

Howard /40 minutes 05-06
14.8 pts 8.4 rbs .459 fg% and 12.4 PER

So, let's see, two years out of high school, Al Jefferson is a better scorer, rebounder, and shoots better than Howard.

You can have Howard and his lazy defense and non-fouling... .I (and any other sane GM in the league) will take Jefferson.

No, he's the starting power forward who backs up Collins at Center, and plays the majority of his time at PF, and more than anybody on the Nets.
http://www.82games.com/0506/05NJN15C.HTM

NJ did not have decent backup center so he slides over to C when they put in Cliff Robinson.

I'm taking this as a harbinger of the fact that you don't know what the hell you're talking about and have never seen a Nets game or Kristic play.....

.....and it looks like I was correct.
Plus how do you say he is better than JHo?
Because the Nets offensive and defensive efficincy goes up when he is on the court, and goes way down when he is off, a symptom of which is his +6.9 Roland Rating. Juwan is the opposite, with a -5.4 Roland rating.

Is he a better scorer than JHo?

Yes. 17.5/40 on 50% shooting for Krstic (13.5 ppg overall), vs. 14.8 on 46% shooting for Howard (11.8 overall).

So, he scores more points every night, more efficiently, while shooting a higher percentage. Yes, I'd say that makes him a better scorer unless you've got another definition for me, LOL.

Is he a better rebounder than JHo?

They're about the same
Krstic 8.3/40, 6.4 overall, 12.2 rebound rating

Howard: 8.4/40, 6.7 overall 12.4 rating

You didn't ask this, but it's important, so I will: Is he a better defender?

Yes. Krstic isn't that great but Howard is among the worst in the league. That is why Krstic (w/o Yao behind him) held other PFs to a lower eFG% than Howard did, and why his team got better, not worse defensively when he played. You can't say the same for Howard.

Does he foul more than JHo?

Congratulations. YOu've identified the sole redeeming quality of Howard- he stays out of foul trouble and picks up 0.4 fewer fouls/game than Krstic. (not so hard when you don't play D). But of course, with production like what he gives you - it's no wonder the opposing coaches want to keep him in the game since he makes the Rockets worse when he plays.

So, Krstic is much better on offense and defense, rebounding is a wash. But you'd go with Howard because he doesn't foul as much? Ha ha ha ha ha, sure you would - again, most coaches, GM's, non insane people would disagree.

Is he better in the future? Yes.

Is he better now? Yes.

Once again, /40 minutes

Frye: 20.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, .477 18.1 PER
Howard:14.8 pts 8.4 rbs .459 fg% and 12.4 PER

See above, I would hope you don't need me to explain why Frye is better with that stat line yet again.

I don't care about Howard's all star years with the Bullets back in 1996.

I'm talking about right now - and the fact that he can't keep up with kids barely out of high school is what alarms me - and it shows on the court. (47% shooting, 7 rpg for a PF is not good, btw - in fact it is mediocre).

He is the worst starting PF in the league this side of Marvin Williams - and he ain't getting any better. He would not start over any of the players above for the reasons stated, and there's really no getting around that.

This is a fact, just like it's a fact that he's one of the least productive, least efficient starters in the league and that his presence on the court makes the Rockets worse off, statistically.

Let me, see, well, this is hard to figure out....

....

....

....

....oh yeah, now I recall

BASKETBALL

 

This is stupid. Battier can definitely work with everyone.

 

the question is can he win with everyone

 

Do you think those career per game numbers are an accurate projection of what Juwan will give us next season, playing (at most) 30 minutes a game?

If you want to argue in favor of Juwan, don't reference stats. Statistically, he is not good. Talk about his work ethic, locker-room leadership, or maybe that he's experienced and understands his role in JVG's scheme pretty well. But, please, don't try to argue that he's statistically productive. That's simply not the case.

 

Juwan is still able to put up the same numbers as his career average.

Yao missed all but 1 game in January. Can you guess what JHo's averages were? 50% f/g 7.2rebs and 17.4ppg

Yao missed the last half of games in April due to a broken foot. What was JHo's averages? 44% f/g 6.5 rpg and 16.1ppg


JHo can still score at the same click he has been able to his whole career when asked to.

With Yao in the line-up of course JHO's approach to the game changes but he still scores efficiently. Some of you guys act like JHo is not even able to tie his own shoes any more. The guy may not be a spring chicken but at 33 he isn't exactly in a retirement home either.

 

so assuming yao and tmac are healthy this season, your answer is no

people are saying he shouldn't be starting

which is totally different from retiring

do you think all non starters should retire?

 

The thing is that Juwan is not being ASKED to put up those numbers anymore, he is being asked to be a role player and to hit a high percentage of his shots and to be a complimentary cog in the machine.

Which he is perfectly capable, and more importantly, HAPPY to do.

A lot of you naysayers are going to be eating a big ole helping of crow. and Crash and I are gonna be shoveling it down your throats !!!

OOOOOORAAAAAAAHHHHHH !!!!!

DD

 

For the 300th time - he put up the same bad numbers on a /40 basis in 0405 as he did in 0506 despite playing a lot more minutes in 0506.

See for yourself.

2005 31 HOU NBA 61 1624 6.0 13.3 0.0 0.0 2.4 2.8 3.1 5.4 8.5 2.3 0.8 0.1 1.9 3.5 14.4

2006 32 HOU NBA 80 2538 6.2 13.5 0.0 0.1 2.4 3.0 2.6 5.8 8.4 1.8 0.8 0.1 2.1 3.7 14.8

 

I'm 41 years old I think I'm way past being called a kid. But thanks.

I love it when people start pulling out the per 48 minutes stats.

1st. off how is he going to stay in the game when he would average almost 8 personal fouls per 48 minutes? I know you don't want to hear it but fouls are part of the game and Al Jefferson is still a foul machine.

2nd. The guy averaged 18 minutes a game, if he played extra 15 minutes a game what do think that would do to his stats. Don't you think there is a reason that he played behind Raef LaFrentz?

A few years ago Kelvin Cato had one of the highest f/g percentages in the league and a better rpg average per 48 minutes than anyone in the league. Are you also going to argue that Cato was better than JHo that year?

I'll say it again...what the has Al Jefferson done in the league? Nothing.

Get back to me when he actually starts or can manage to play more than 18 minutes a game. BTW...in the 6 games he started as a forward he averaged 8.8pts and 4.2 rebs.

Please, please don't take this as me knocking Jefferson but he is only 21 and still has a ways to go. He is a much better prospect than JHo but certainly not as good as JHo now.

You are right about 1 thing. I never watch the Nets...unless of course they are playing the Rockets. Guilty as charged on that one. NBA.com has him listed as a center only.

It does look as if Krstic is the only post scoring threats the Nets have. Neither Collins or Robinson did much in the way of scoring at all last season.

When JHo was asked to carry the scoring load in the post last season for the Rockets in January when Yao missed basically the whole month and again in April when Yao missed half the games his averages jumped up drastically.

In Jan he hit 50% f/g 7.2rpg and 17.5ppg

In April 44% f/g 6.5rpg and 16.1ppg

It is hard to argue that JHo can still put the ball in the basket when asked to do it. Of course most of the season he is asked to defer to Yao Ming.

I wonder if you believe Krstic's stat's would go up playing along side Yao Ming?


I pointed out what Juwans averages were when he was asked to carry the scoring inside. It was 16.1ppg and 17.5ppg, when Yao Ming was in the game he was not asked to carry the scoring load.

My whole point in this discussion is that JHo is not the useless sack that many make him out to be.

There are many teams that might have use for a 33 year old verteran that can still score effectively in this league.

 

But Mcgrady 2006<<<<<<<<<< Mcgrady 2005

I LOVE Mcgrady but he needs to get his lazy butt on the court when his healthly of course and start playing like "The Great McGrady" am i the only one who sees that T-mac is getting lazier every season?? Being his #1 fan it frustrates me even to post this about him but i think its the truth and truth is always bitter