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[SI.COM] John Lopez: Rockets championships are tainted

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by djohn2o12, May 14, 2010.

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  1. Pieman2005

    Pieman2005 Member

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    Boston Celtics - 17
    Los Angeles Lakers - 15
    Chicago Bulls - 6
    San Antonio Spurs - 4
    Detroit Pistons - 3
    Golden State Warriors - 3
    Philedelphia 76ers - 3
    Houston Rockets - 2
    New York Knicks - 2
     
  2. DdotConrad503

    DdotConrad503 Member

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    I bet he won't come to the H talking that bull
     
  3. Blake

    Blake Contributing Member

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    I made a thread to refute this

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=5234404

    So, I didn't know whether to post this in the GARM forum, but it drives me crazy when I hear people say that our two championships deserve asterisks due to Michael Jordan not playing. Yes, he was "retired" during the 1993-1994 season, but he PLAYED during the 1994-1995 season. Yesterday on 610 for example, Rich Lord mentioned that Jordan didn't play the two seasons that we won our championships.

    Total horse manure. MJ did play in the 1994-95 season, though it wasn't for the whole year...only 17 regular season games. When I mention that, people then try to counter with, "Well, he wasn't the same MJ because he only played a portion of the year", which couldn't be further from the truth (about him being not being vintage MJ). Proof? No problem. Let's look at MJ's stats in the 1995 playoffs in comparison to the 3 following championship seasons.

    It should also be noted that the Bulls were eliminated by the Orlando Magic, a team that we SWEPT.

    MJ's 1995 playoff stats (you know, when he wasn't "vintage MJ")

    FG %: .484
    3P %: .367
    PPG: 31.5
    RPG: 6.5
    APG: 4.5

    Now, his playoff averages during the 3 following championship seasons:

    FG %: .459
    3P %: .300
    PPG: 31.4
    RPG: 6.0
    APG: 4.1

    As you can see, MJ was superior in the 95 playoffs than he was, on average, in the 3 following champioship years, which should put the debate to rest. MJ was, in fact, MJ but the Magic were the better TEAM and we SWEPT the Magic. Therefore, the BS and ill-informed "MJ didn't play/MJ wasn't the same player" couldn't be further from the truth.

    Critics and MJ homers might say, "But Blake, you used AVERAGES from the 3 other titles, you didn't compare year to year". No problem.

    Using the 4 playoff seasons (1995-1998), Jordan averaged:

    PPG:
    1995-31.5
    1996- 30.7
    1997- 31.1
    1998- 32.4

    Second highest scoring average in 1995 playoffs

    RPG:
    1995- 6.5
    1996- 4.9
    1997- 7.9
    1998- 5.1

    Second highest rebounding average in 1995 playoffs

    APG:
    1995-4.5
    1996- 4.1
    1997- 4.8
    1998- 3.5

    Second highest assist average in 1995 playoffs

    FG%:
    1995- .484
    1996- .459
    1997- .456
    1998- .462

    Highest FG% in 1995 playoffs

    3 point %:
    1995- .367
    1996- .403
    1997- .194
    1998- .302

    Second highest 3pt % in 1995 playoffs

    In conclusion, when anyone says to you that the 1995 NBA championship should have an * next to it due to MJ not playing or not being "vintage MJ", tell them about those stats and tell them to have a coke and a smile.

    The point of this? Well, I'm tired of hearing people say that crap, even local Houston sports radio hosts. The fact of the matter is that basketball is a team sport and the Bulls did not have Rodman yet and were not the powerhouse that they became again when they signed him. Jordan WAS Jordan in the 1995 playoffs, but the Bulls just were not a good enough team.

    The Rockets were...and we won it all.
     
  4. ROCKCITY

    ROCKCITY Member

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    If Jordan not playing in the league was the main reason the Rockets got the championships, then how come the other teams didn't step up their game to win those two championships knowing that Jordan was out of the league? The Rockets were the best team in the league those 2 years and winning those championships prove that, whether or not Jordan was playing. Basketball goes on with or without Michael Jordan.
     
  5. albuster

    albuster Member

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    And how did you know this?
     
  6. albuster

    albuster Member

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    Stop this nonsense! I understand the adoration and deification of Olajuwon in this city but stop already. I lived in Chicago long before and during the Jordan years and there was never any talk of Jordan or the Bulls fearing any team.

    Where did you get all this "fear" thing? Has the gutless McGrady influenced our thinking here. The great players were great because they never feared anybody. Hakeem belongs to these fearless icons but don't desecrate the greatness and fearlessness of Jordan and the Bulls just to disprove a point.

    The reality is this, Seattle owned the Rockets during those years and the Bulls beat the Sonics in the NBA finals. That reality happened without any of these foolish speculation about the Rockets beating Jordan's Bulls. I also find it foolish to try to diminish or taint the Rockets champhionships. The Rockets won the championships fair and square, and if Jordan was not present at that time, then too bad, he didn't get his two other rings. Olajuwon has those two rings and nobody can take them away.
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I do recall reading somewhere that Jordan said the Rockets would have been their toughest opponent had he met them in the playoffs, because the Bulls didn't have an answer for Olajuwon.

    The Bulls never faced a post player of Olajuwon's caliber in their championship runs. Its unfair to say that Jordan would have lost to the Rockets had he never retired, but its just as unfair to say that the Rockets would have lost to the Bulls (which is the implication with all the "championships are tainted" talk).
     
  8. ROCKCITY

    ROCKCITY Member

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    I completely agree with you except on one thing.

    I don't know if you intended to proclaim that those two rings would be "his", but I don't think its fair that those two ring should be considered "his" just cause he was the greatest player to play the game. I know its a small thing, but I wanted to clarify it. :)
     
  9. shsu33

    shsu33 Member

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    I had to send him an email, this is just too ridiculous! I'm not computer savy so I'm just using <> to show what was the email.

    <I know you are going to think I'm a biased homer but you continue to give credit to Jordan for quitting on his team while discrediting the Rockets. Do you realize they won two in a row? Hakeem and his Rockets are the most disrespected back to back champs in the history of sports. BTW, Jordan was beaten by the team the Rockets swept and your going to say it was because he wasn't there the whole season. How about the fact that he's Jordan, a guy that is compared to God by some of you writers and he wasn't sitting on his ass, he was playing baseball, had 19 games to get in playoff shape, scored 55 in MSG and finally 1995 was his best playoff basketball statistically. The difference is that Horace Grant wasn't there and if San Antonio hadn't done the dumbest trade of all time in sending Rodman there for PURDUE! They wouldn't have won championships in 96-98 without Rodman. The point of this isn't that you were wrong about Houston being number 2 on choke cities, I can agree to most of that, except Lidge, that was on Lidge, Astros still beat the Cards in 6, then choked in the series! What I don't get still to this day, 15 years after the back to backs, is how an American man who's nuts you writers always ride is given a pass for quitting while the African that never quit and won the title two years in a row, one of which while Jordan(or God, whastever YOU wanna call him) was there. I think you should look a little in the archives and see for yourself how the Rockets gave the Bulls fits all through the early 90's and it wasn't even Hakeem doing it. A man named Vernon Maxwell acually has better head to head stats against God, I mean Jordan, doesn't mean he's a better player overall than Jordan, it just shows he was better than Jordan when they faced each other. Plus, Maxwell was crazy, you really think he would have cared or fallen into the Jordan bs and if the refs gave Jordan calls, like they usually did, Mario Elie would have been on him while Vernon was out. Maxwell would have proven in the finals that Jordan was beatable and was not God, just a highly overrated superstar(media's fault). I honestly think Jordan knew this and used his dad as an excuse to quit so that his legend would not be tainted. You think I'm crazy? Look up in 1995 when Maxwell being the first to go up in the stands (this was before Artest) in Portland and punched somebody, he was suspended and the Rockets made the trade for Drexler. Notice that Jordan started talking of his comeback. Only the American media can hype the best player in the world so much that he's overrated and the saddest part is that most people don't recognize this and would say that Jordan was perfect. It's not Jordan's fault, it was all you writers of that time and all the sponsors too that created the Jordan myth. Rockets fans seem to be the only fans that know its all bs, you guys created the Jordan=God, he just couldn't beat us though so we never believed the hype or that he was any better than Hakeem at his position. Its just sad that people like you don't want to even try and give credit to the Rockets BACK to BACK years and clump it into the fluke sector. Think about that a moment, back to back titles and yet you guarantee Jordan would have had 8 in a row and call theirs fluke?!?! This is exactly what America is, giving credit to the American quitter and discredit the African that came over here and won two titles at the highest level. Take my advise Lopez, actually study this debate and think before you just throw out dumb bs because it makes this article better, you could have left Houston at number 2 even with the Rockets titles. Although you must discredit the WHL- Aeros back to back(with Gordie Howe and sons), WNBA- Comets 4 peat, College baseball- Rice National champs 2003 and MLS- Dynamo back to back champs! In fact now that thats been thrown out, we can't be number 2 on the choke list, so your just wrong. How about you give Houston a little more credit but more importantly give Hakeem and his Rockets the credit they deserve! Thanks, Mark Sherrill>

    Doubt it will change his mind but at least I feel a lil better
     
  10. shsu33

    shsu33 Member

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    okay that didn't work


    I know you are going to think I'm a biased homer but you continue to give credit to Jordan for quitting on his team while discrediting the Rockets. Do you realize they won two in a row? Hakeem and his Rockets are the most disrespected back to back champs in the history of sports. BTW, Jordan was beaten by the team the Rockets swept and your going to say it was because he wasn't there the whole season. How about the fact that he's Jordan, a guy that is compared to God by some of you writers and he wasn't sitting on his ass, he was playing baseball, had 19 games to get in playoff shape, scored 55 in MSG and finally 1995 was his best playoff basketball statistically. The difference is that Horace Grant wasn't there and if San Antonio hadn't done the dumbest trade of all time in sending Rodman there for PURDUE! They wouldn't have won championships in 96-98 without Rodman. The point of this isn't that you were wrong about Houston being number 2 on choke cities, I can agree to most of that, except Lidge, that was on Lidge, Astros still beat the Cards in 6, then choked in the series! What I don't get still to this day, 15 years after the back to backs, is how an American man who's nuts you writers always ride is given a pass for quitting while the African that never quit and won the title two years in a row, one of which while Jordan(or God, whastever YOU wanna call him) was there. I think you should look a little in the archives and see for yourself how the Rockets gave the Bulls fits all through the early 90's and it wasn't even Hakeem doing it. A man named Vernon Maxwell acually has better head to head stats against God, I mean Jordan, doesn't mean he's a better player overall than Jordan, it just shows he was better than Jordan when they faced each other. Plus, Maxwell was crazy, you really think he would have cared or fallen into the Jordan bs and if the refs gave Jordan calls, like they usually did, Mario Elie would have been on him while Vernon was out. Maxwell would have proven in the finals that Jordan was beatable and was not God, just a highly overrated superstar(media's fault). I honestly think Jordan knew this and used his dad as an excuse to quit so that his legend would not be tainted. You think I'm crazy? Look up in 1995 when Maxwell being the first to go up in the stands (this was before Artest) in Portland and punched somebody, he was suspended and the Rockets made the trade for Drexler. Notice that Jordan started talking of his comeback. Only the American media can hype the best player in the world so much that he's overrated and the saddest part is that most people don't recognize this and would say that Jordan was perfect. It's not Jordan's fault, it was all you writers of that time and all the sponsors too that created the Jordan myth. Rockets fans seem to be the only fans that know its all bs, you guys created the Jordan=God, he just couldn't beat us though so we never believed the hype or that he was any better than Hakeem at his position. Its just sad that people like you don't want to even try and give credit to the Rockets BACK to BACK years and clump it into the fluke sector. Think about that a moment, back to back titles and yet you guarantee Jordan would have had 8 in a row and call theirs fluke?!?! This is exactly what America is, giving credit to the American quitter and discredit the African that came over here and won two titles at the highest level. Take my advise Lopez, actually study this debate and think before you just throw out dumb bs because it makes this article better, you could have left Houston at number 2 even with the Rockets titles. Although you must discredit the WHL- Aeros back to back(with Gordie Howe and sons), WNBA- Comets 4 peat, College baseball- Rice National champs 2003 and MLS- Dynamo back to back champs! In fact now that thats been thrown out, we can't be number 2 on the choke list, so your just wrong. How about you give Houston a little more credit but more importantly give Hakeem and his Rockets the credit they deserve! Thanks, Mark Sherrill
     
  11. shsu33

    shsu33 Member

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    Have you guys looked? I went back to the article after writing that email. I think we all got to him cause the part about the Rockets is gone, like it was never there. Can he really do that? Its gone, we won lol!!!!
     
  12. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

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