Nothing new, but just wanted to post it for those who haven't read it yet. If already posted, lock it up. Camp position battles to watch NBA training camps for the 2008-09 season are about to open. Soon the air will be filled with the sound of basketballs bouncing, sneakers squeaking and coaches barking out commands. And to hear at least one longtime Eastern Conference executive tell it, the sound of fists whizzing past ears as teammates battling for a precious roster or starting spot let their tempers get the better of them. "Oh yeah, [fights] happen all the time," said the executive, who wished to remain anonymous for obvious reasons. "It's not really a training camp if you don't have at least one. "Nobody ever gets hurt, thank God. These are basketball players, after all. But it's actually not a bad thing to have a fight or two. You'd almost be worried about it if there weren't any." We're not saying the players listed below will be going Brendan Haywood-Etan Thomas on each other in the days ahead. We're just pointing out that there could be some "intense" competition on the court. In some cases, the result could have an impact on the NBA title race. Here, then, is our list of 10 significant (and entirely friendly, as far as we know) position battles to watch: 1. Rockets small forward • The main candidates: Ron Artest, Shane Battier • The skinny: Don't assume Artest will just step into the starting lineup. Battier is a valuable cog as a long-armed defender and three-point shooter. He also does a lot of other little things that complement Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming. Houston coach Rick Adelman might be reluctant to tinker with success, and instead opt to use Artest off the bench as a spark plug and scorer much the way the Spurs do with Manu Ginobili. (At the end of games, Adelman can always use Artest and Battier on the floor with T-Mac as the principal ball handler). Artest, by the way, has said he would accept a reserve role. There's more to the article, if you want to read it: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/marty_burns/09/23/camp.battles/index.html?eref=T1
I also don't think Artest will be the de facto starter. Last year, we were rolling with our starting five. Yao, Tmac, and Scola provided plenty of offense while Battier spaced the floor. Sure, the bench provided plenty of energy during the streak, but Landry may not be here next year and Artest would help a lot in replacing that spark. If Ginobli can get starter's minutes off the bench, so can Artest. My philosophy is go with whatever works best. If Artest works out better with the starting lineup, then great. But in theory, both he and Battier will be better utilized with Artest coming off the bench.
It will exactly be like last season, where this time its artest/battier and last season its scola/hayes. Battier will start, as the season goes on, artest will eventualy take over the starting place, and then it will be another 22 winning run. Then tracy will get injured, so rox will have the legacy of with both artest and tmac on the field, they will never lose a game. Instead of yao/scola. But the season will end with, rox winning the big price. Question: I know deke have post season success, who have made the 2nd round of the playoffs in this current squad? The only name that i can think of is Strawberry.
Gotta disagree with you, smoothie. It's all about what combinations work best on the floor. Ron Artest, while a great all-around player, is known for being a "ball-stopper" (as JVG put it). There is no need to have a guy who hold onto the ball too long in the same lineup as a FRESH T-Mac and Yao. Shane is the perfect complement to those two stars, since he is the better three-point shooter and is a similarly elite defender. Plus, what many people don't seem to consider is how INEFFECTIVE Shane would likely be as a reserve. He is most effective when on the floor with T-Mac and Yao. If he were in there with Luther, Barry, Hayes or Landry, his effectiveness would drop significantly. Artest, on the other hand, is capable of taking over a game on offense from time to time. He is much more capable of being the first option for the Rockets reserves. Plus, he will be a more effective weapon for the Rockets if he's fresh and in the game late when T-Mac and Yao are not fresh. Bottom line: Forget about who's better. I think most people would agree that Artest is a better all-around player (especially on offense). The Rockets' main consideration is what makes the team most effective overall. I think that entails Shane starting and Artest playing significant minutes as the sixth man.
I think lineup of Yao, Artest, Battier, Tmac n Alston will be used alot as well. Artest, Battier, Tmac n Alston are all good outside shooters n this will leave Yao go one on one without double team with his defender with this lineup. Artest imo will be the starter, but Battier will play significant minutes if not almost as much as Artest.
The wise thing to do is keep our starting 5 same as last season. Just because you are a starter that doesn't mean you are better. It just that this core of 5 players have the best chemistry and complement each other well. The starting five sets the tone for the game. The closing Five would be the more important factor. I think we will see artest as the 3 and rotation between battier/scola depends on the matchup. T-mac, and Yao will need plenty of rest this season and Artest is here to spell them that rest. starting five alston Tmac Battier Scola Yao Closing Five Berry Tmac Artest Scola/or battier Yao hopefully SF would be healthy enough to be part of the closing five.
one more thing. I don't think having Alston as the closing five would be wise. As we all know he can't really D and his O are off. only thing left is his passing skills. I think berry with his Offense will prove alot more useful to us than Alston at the final minuates. If we need D, then we can have both Artest, Battier, and Scola in with Tmac and Yao.
I can see Artest having a very strong camp and easily winning the starting job from Shane. But I can also see him being the 6th man sparkplug off the bench. I think if Ron Ron get lots of minutes and finishes games, he will be satisfied with that. Last season, Ginobilli set a new standard and took the 6th man role to another level.
I rather have Artest starting... ...Putting Ron on the bench is like putting Ray Allen or Paul Pierce on the bench for the Celtics. It obviously worked for the Cetlics starting all three stars.
I think the right move is to have Battier start with Artest coming off the bench. San Antonio has done it, Ginobli still averaged over 30 minutes a game, and San Antonio was still able to win games. And San Antonio did it for the same reason we should, because we have no one who can come off the bench and score. It used to be Bonzi Wells before he got traded. Battier isn't going to come off the bench with offense. Besides, it gives us an option if the team starts struggling for whatever reason. If we lose 5 in a row we can start Artest (similarly to how we started Scola over Hayes and then proceeded to go on a 22 game win streak).
i think starting battier and as the season progresses artest will be starting. its not really the same the celtics were not returning a team that won 55 games the prior season. you do not want to mess with that chemistry...same reason why hayes started last year. I would go with the season(s) that the projected starting 5 have played together compared with just a training camp of artest. of course it can change like last year where clearly artest will provide more or is better starting than off the bench. personally being a "paper coach/GM" artest off the bench will be better as our offense and defense will not suffer when tmac or battier goes to the bench for a rest. either way its a problem but i am sure its a problem that every coach in the league would want to have
Allen and Pierce are great 3 pt shooters which forced defenses to be honest. Tmac, Artest, and Rafer are all subpar 3 pt shooters. If Yao is to be effectively utilized, we need to have competent shooters surrounding him. That means, at the very least, starting Battier instead of Artest.
Well the Spurs bring Ginobli off the bench and it obviously worked for them too. With him being 6th man they constantly have energy on the floor, so now a ten point deficit against them is nearly insurmountable. What's been our biggest problem for years? Offense lulls where we can't buy a basket. Bringing Artest in with the 2nd unit? Problem solved.
My bet is that both Battier and Artest will play about the same amount of time. Who starts is not that important. Artest is a better talent overall. But these two guys offer different things. They are on the same level defensively with different styles (Artest with strength and tenacity, Battier with smart and discipline). Offensively, Artest is more aggressive and can create for himself. But he will be a disruption to the system based on Yao and TMac? Battier is a more reliable 3-pt shooter, which is very important with Yao in the middle. But he is too passive sometimes and seems to disappear in stretches. It all comes down to match up. I wouldn't be surprised that they will be on the floor together at some times. Artest can guard PFs. Battier cannot. BTW, all these depend on Artest behaves.
I agree with you and A_3PO even though I don't have some of the reservations you both do. Artest might, just might take to our offense better than anyone thinks. And that's assuming either our offense is what it was before Yao went down or it becomes more of what Adelman envisioned at this time last year. It just seems like a logical possibility to me. If that happens I'd want Artest to start just so we don't get into these drastic 1st quarter/early second quarter deficits we've seen far too often when Yao gets smothered by defenses. You're right that Yao needs 3pt. shooters on the floor, but I think Scolandry last year proved that a solid midrange game helps him (and TMac) a great deal too. So I guess I'm more optimistic about the possibilities even though I still think it may be almost Christmas (again) before they become apparent.
How about Rafer, Tmac, Ron & Yao starting, with Scola or Battier being the 5th starter depending on match-ups (whether we want Artest or Scola guarding the opposing 4). IMO we really want Artest to get a lot of work with Yao and Tmac, and learn how to be effective as the 3rd option with them all on the court, we kind know what we are going to get from role players extrodinaire (SB, LS). Manu is really exceptional in that he can shift between being the primary option/6th man offensive change up to the #3 option off the ball player pretty seamlessly. I am not sure Artest can do that, not many other players do (even other great offensive 6th men like Barbosa), not unless Artest gets real comfortable with Yao and Tmac.
