Fact is after 1 season w/ a coaching genius: Matt Cassel was a name in a basically 1 for 1 trade w/ Broncos for Cutler, if they are willing to give up Cutler for just Cassel, I think Schaub + a late pick is a pretty damn good offer. Cutler is a STUD outside of his fumbling problem. If he can learn to hold on to the football, the Texans would be going places with him. I'd love to see the Texans do this trade.
Ric, I respect a lot of your opinions on stuff and usually you analyze things pretty objectively, but I think you are being inconsistent here. You are applying a negative to Schaub just based on a bad feeling solely because of the number of games he's missed, not taking into account the situations those injuries occurred. You'll wade into the nitty-gritty details of why Jake Plumber's record in Denver was not indicative of how good a QB he was, but for Schaub, he's missed 10 games and that's all you need to know. But that's a minor point. And Republic, you look really desparate going to the "you post like a 14 year old" well THREE times in THREE separate posts when all Ric did was use the popular internet meme "fail" once surrounded by lucid, well presented arguments that, frankly, tear yours to shreds. And this coming from someone that agrees with you that we shouldn't trade Schaub straight up for Cutler.
i agree - i've argued in other threads that schaub has most certainly been a victim of rotten luck. but two quick, important follow-ups: 1) he also missed significant time in college because of an injury. at some point - and i'm not saying we're there yet - but at some point, you have to start to wonder... look, david carr was hit repeatedly each and every week - early, late, guys taking cheap shots... and he missed (i'm going from memory) 5 starts in his five years here. when does it stop being a product of luck and start being an issue with schaub? two straight years plus an injury history in college... we're close to that point. 2) until he does it - and he never has - i think it's dangerous to assume schaub can stay upright for 16 games. it just is. two years isn't an enormous sample size; but it's not a small one, either. to ignore it when constructing a team would be every bit as irresponsible as assuming mcgrady and/or yao will be healthy for 82 games. until it happens... i like matt schaub quite a bit. except... he misses too many games, meaning he's also missing too many practices. because of the way his contract is structured, they have an out after this year. if he doesn't play 14+ games and stay relatively healthy... he's probably done here. i would be floored if they entered a 4th season playing the "if schaub stays healthy..." card. so if, right now, i could deal that question mark for a guy who's started 37 consecutive games and is actually younger but more experienced than schaub - not to mention cheaper - i mean... i wouldn't hesitate. add that his measureables are better and he'd be coming from a system i'm guessing is very similiar to ours... as i've said, i think it's a no brainer. and that's not by any stretch a knock on schaub. 25-year old pro bowl QBs who play in your system simply don't often fall into your lap very often. (and thanks, btw, for the rest of your post.)
darn it! (psst - i'm not a football analyst. "analyst" - what does that even mean?...) have you ever noticed most "leaders" seem to always be on winning teams? probably a coincidence, right? or maybe their leadering guarantees wins!! but then... kurt warner was a leader in st. louis. he was a leader again in arizona - did he forget how to lead when he was with the giants? how many wins did he *lead* new york to during his year there? your boy, jake plummer, is another great example. what a leader he was in denver. arizona? yeah, not so much... vince young - VINCE! in 2006, i literally thought his middle name was leader. funny how, as his career tanked, people stopped writing flowing prose about his leadershiping, isn't it? i could go on and on... point is: anyone that thinks "leadership" is some tangible talent that translate to victories is silly. it helps to have a guy set an example and keep teammates focused on the task at hand - but i don't think it's a "skill" on par with actual measureables. nor does that person have to be your QB. troy aikman won three super bowls and had the personality of a microwave oven; do you think aloof, anti-social troy aikman was leading that team? (answer: no. michael irvin was.)
These are all copouts. Using your logic you're only successful if you win a Super Bowl. Plus, you just got done telling me how comparing W/L records is ridiculous yet you had no problem pointing out Plummer's record once he got to the playoffs. You can spin that however you want. I’m clearly not “reincarnating” Plummer as anybody – just pointing out how you’re “Mr. Empathy”. You’re the guy making the argument that Cutler’s actions are excusable merely because somebody hurt his feelings. What do you think was going through Plummer’s mind after the Broncos drafted the great, Jay Cutler? Three playoff appearances, a game away from the Super Bowl, winning record as a starter – then you draft a guy to essentially replace him at some point. Hmmmmmm…….regardless of whether or not it was a smart decision (it was) and regardless of how you’ll refuse to see the connection (you won’t), this isn’t apples and oranges. Plummer was more deserving of the “commitment” you speak of yet didn’t get it, BUT STOP THE PRESS whenever Jay Cutler loses a bunch of games then hears his name in a trade rumor. Give me a break. Bottom line: Plummer won in Denver, Cutler hasn't. You can kid yourself into thinking those Denver teams weren't talented enough to be playoff contenders. You can kid yourself into thinking they weren't pre-season playoff teams according to a number of analysts. You can kid yourself into thinking late season collapses weren’t the real reason they continue to miss the playoffs. That’s fine – whatever helps your case of making Cutler look completely blameless. No, not entirely his fault but this football. It goes without saying that QB is the most important position on the field so you're judged accordingly. Nobody said it was fair, that's just the way it is, and the way it is: Cutler is a mistake-prone big numbers guy that routinely underperforms and loses big games from weeks 12-17 every year. The entire argument for keeping Cutler is based off of his upside and value in the future. If Cutler were 30-years old or if this were a Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia or whoever pulling these childish antics I guarantee your stance would be different. Why is that? Because even though he hasn’t accomplished a damn thing in this league, people know he has talent and he’s young so apparently there is some sort of implied ‘BS tolerance’ level you’re supposed to accept in situations like this. I only agree with that to an extent. If I were in the Broncos front office I would be just as perplexed as I am now thinking, “Who in the hell does this guy think he is? Did we win something and I just missed it?!”. That having been said, I agree totally there will be a long line of teams interested in acquiring him if, indeed, this mess results in a trade. There should be. What I just don't understand is if Cutler is as 'commitment happy' as you make him sound, shouldn't the Broncos' explicit stance that they don't plan on trading him be considered progress in that regard? It's not like they were going to bench him. If he loves being a Bronco as much as he claims you would think he should be able to just move on, but as I stated: I think Cutler has wanted out for quite some time and will use this McDaniels/Cassel thing as a smokescreen in order to make that happen. It's still a hypothetical scenario. Hypothetical, theoretical, speculatory....whatever. It all paints the same picture: something that was considered but didn't happen. Just another day in the office. You take that reality vs. your extreme "THEY TRIED TO GET RID OF HIM" stance and I can't agree with that. Considering a trade in sports isn't the automatic indictment you make it out to be. And if you think McDaniels is the stupid and arrogant party in this matter I give up completely. I don't think I can respond to that. P.S. You never explained your "cheater" accusation. Dare I ask....? P.S.S. If you read through all the BS what you should take away from this is this actually started with the firing of Shanahan rather just his offensive coordinator. So we have the Shanahan/Jeremy Bates firings, Cutler’s own admission that his home has been up for sale for months then we have his unusual reaction to this whole McDaniels/Cassel thing – this guy wanted out of Denver to some degree since day 1. It appears he’s ready to twist this McDaniels thing in any direction necessary in order to “finally” secure his way out of Denver. At least, that’s the way I am reading all this.
Looking at his Wiki page, I see where he injured his shoulder in his senior year and didn't return for "several games." Other than that, his early seasons it says the team was doing some kind of weird QB platooning system where they would alternate starts. Is the shoulder injury the one you were referring to? He was injured in the first game and was back by the 4th game. Not knowing the details of that shoulder injury, that does add somewhat to my concern about his brittleness, but I wouldn't count 2+ games missed in his college career as significant time. Well, I guess it stops being a product of luck when he starts sustaining injuries that don't look so severe on television that I would assume any QB would be knocked out by them. I haven't really seen that yet. Again, the biggest conclusion I think a reasonable person can draw from Schaub's history so far is that we don't really have enough evidence one way or another. If he gets injured again this season and misses 4-5 games, odds are it won't be on an illegal hit that a player gets fined/suspended for. It's pretty unlikely that happens to a guy 3 times in 3 seasons. So if he misses significant time, we'll know a lot more. But, irresponsible or not, I don't think the team has to assume anything about Schaub's durability at this point. It's way too early to consider trading him based on the injuries he's sustained, and he's going to be your QB for all of this season one way or another. Make a decision then, when you have more info. I might be swayed that a guy like Cutler would be worth acquiring for Schaub straight up, but I doubt the Broncos would settle for that and anything beyond Matt is too much, in my opinion. So it's kind of a moot point on that front. I agree. And I would have no problem if that was the decision they made. As a side note, isn't it fun to debate durability issues with your starting QBs rather than debating EVERY SINGLE OTHER POSSIBLE QB SKILL outside of durability issues? Holy crap I'm glad David Carr is off this team.
done so only to counter your reinvention of jake plummer as a later-day terry bradshaw. i have no idea. but drafting an heir apparent when your starting QB is 32 is *light years* different from being traded/not traded by your brand new head coach/offensive coordinator. really and truly apples and oranges. sorry, man – it just is. i appreciate what you’re saying – it’s not totally invalid – it’s just entirely different. plummer earned his demotion; please stop trying to cover this with jake plummer’s greatest hits. what he did from 2002-2005 is irrelevant. he was 32, playing terribly, and the team had top 11 pick money invested in his eventual replacement. that is very much a football decision. and i know, i know – and i agree: trading cutler is, too: you’re absolutely right. and we can argue the intent and merit of doing so - my only contention is that the situation mcdaniels created is what made it such a mess. baller4life315… denver’s defense ranked 29th overall last year - 30th in points allowed, 27th against the run and 26th against the pass. that is not a playoff-caliber team. sorry; it simply isn’t. meanwhile, btw - the offense ranked 2nd overall – 16th in points scored; 12th rushing and 3rd passing. compare that to the 2005 team that came within a game of the super bowl: defense: 15th overall (3rd in points allowed; 2nd against the run; 29th against the pass); offense: 5th overall (7th in points scored; 2nd rushing; 18th passing) the only area where you can quantitatively state denver was better in 2008 than 2005 was… the passing game. granted, a big chunk was likely due to a better defense and more effective running game… but to think cutler wouldn’t have won with that ’05 team…… sorry, dumping W/L on an individual is the ultimate copout; it’s lazy and ill-informed. you’re right, cutler hasn’t set the world on fire in december (he was well below average in their final three losses last year – but the defense also gave up 30, 30 and 52 points in those games) – but, in my defense: i’ve never argued he’s bart starr. well, yeah – of course. replacing a delhomme or garcia (both 35+, i believe, and both pretty exceedingly mediocre) with a younger, probably better QB is different than rattling the cages of your 25-year old supposed franchise QB. look, if shanahan had orchestrated this, that’s entirely different because he knows cutler and what he does and doesn’t have. the problem is that mcdaniels is new and he chooses to introduce himself by trading his QB… only, he was too late to the dance: MY BAD! let’s design some plays together! that’s an absolutely terrible, exceedingly stupid way to kick things off. sorry, man – where did the “commitment happy” phrase come from and why are you putting it in quotes as if to indicate it’s something i said? my opinion is that mcdaniels has seriously FUBAR’ed this entire situation and cutler is justified in being pissed about it. and one of the reasons he might be pissed is because he has roots in denver – he owns two homes there; his parents live there: isn't that a pretty legitimate reason (among many) to be upset? i think mcdaniels has handled every single facet of this horribly. isn’t anything short of an actual trade technically hypothetical? if they’re exchanging offers with other teams and he’s telling peter king cassel isn’t a bronco not because they’re committed to jay cutler but because they were “too late to the dance” – i think it goes beyond hypothetical. a hypothetical is sitting around the office with co-workers: ‘hey, wouldn’t it be cool to trade cutler and get cassel?’ that's not what this is - they were engaging with other teams, baller4life315. sorry; i do. and if he’s dealt, you’re going to hear more of that, i think. and when the team sputters and fails with chris simms, it’ll grow louder. he really could not have handled this much worse. oh yeah: at some point i compared this to a marriage; that mcdaniels was the cheater who thought buying flowers and a box of chocolates should solve everything. eh… what’reya gonna go? completely and totally possible – in fact, more and more, i probably lean that way. but that’s a far cry from “baby, hissy fit, he got his feelings hurt”… frankly, it’s pretty clever. because if he really did want out, what recourse did he have? who would be dumb enough to trade a 25-year old pro bowl QB? enter josh mcdaniels and his “get out of jail free” card.
You people are out of your mind. Denver was down to their seventh string running back- they brought back bag stealer Tatum Bell, for Christ's sake- had a defense that was even worse than the Texans and Cutler got them to .500. Yeah, he's a whiner, yeah he comes across as immature, but he's a damn quarterback. He's young, he makes less than Schaub, he has more physical skills and stays healthy. Put him on the Texans and watch out. The Texans won't do it, but I would. It's a no brainer.
did you know it occurred on the first series of the season? not really relevant, per se – but kind of sublimely appropriate, all things considered. anyhoo… so he missed 2 games his senior season and didn’t finish another 1 – his first as the full-time starter. (we’re FF’ing past his three years on the falcons’ bench…) he then misses 5 starts his first season as a full-time starter in the NFL; 5 more his second season as a full-time starter, and altogether there are 3 other games he doesn’t finish over those two years. so out of a possible 45 starts as a full-timke starter, he didn’t finish a whopping 16 of them. we’re talking about 35%... that’s a pretty staggering number. like i said, at some point it’s more than just rotten luck… it’s not just the injuries – cutler is younger and cheaper. (and i’d argue better.) read any preview of the texans this year: i promise every single one of them will contain something to the effect of “…if schaub can stay healthy…” – it’s far and away one of the biggest question marks going into the season. and i’m all fine and dandy with giving him another year – like i said, i like him a lot and have defended him here in this forum. BUT… guys like jay cutler don’t come available every offseason. this discussion is ONLY happening because of that rather unbelievable occurrence. i can’t imagine a team making a better offer than schaub in terms of filling the QB position. is brady quinn a better QB? no way. if they’re content with stockpiling draft choices, they yes: it’s moot. but going into next year with chris simms as your QB is pretty dicey… schaub would allow them to make a glass of lemonade from a situation full of lemons. the irony is that carr’s far and away greatest strength (beyond his hair and manly good looks) was his durability. i’ve never seen a QB take the kind of punishment he did week after week. if you could take just that aspect and combine it with the rest of schaub’s skills, we’d have ourselves one hell of a QB.
I'm with you. Schaub has some game but he still strikes me as somewhat soft, both physically and mentally. Cutler would be an upgrade.
Well, be more realistic, though. Because I don't believe Denver would ever accept Schaub straight up for Cutler. I think they would risk Cutler threatening to sit on the bench before doing that. So how many and what round draft picks would you be willing to include with Schaub to make the deal work?
none; you hope you (and cutler) have them over a barrel and that landing schaub - from their perspective - somewhat salvages a losing situation.
I'm not going to really argue the rest of it anymore since I think we are on the verge (if not already there) of just debating semantics. I agree that durability is a question mark. I just don't think that question has been answered yet, even to a small degree, based on the details of the injuries we've seen so far. I can't really imagine a team offering up more than Schaub either, but I don't think that necessarily means the Bronco's would settle for a player of Schaub's caliber. I think Cutler's trade demands are ultimately going to be a lot less fruitful than he probably thinks (or at least hopes). They may try to trade him further, now. And if they had Schaub offered up by his lonesome they MIGHT accept that...but I don't think the Texans would make that offer and I can't think of any other QBs out there on Schaub's level (or above) whose team wouldn't mind trading him. So ultimately, they are either going to trade Cutler for a bunch of draft picks or call his bluff and see if he is willing to actually sit on the bench for an entire season rather than play for a coach that tried to trade him. Ultimately, I think Cutler plays and plays well. If the Broncos have a good season, things could easily be mended by the end of the season and everyone forgets about this. If they do trade him for draft picks, I don't think they would settle on Chris Simms. I'm sure they'd pursue some other, more veteran QB. Perhaps try to pry McNabb from Philly for some of those draft picks from Cutler's trade. Has there been any response yet from the new coach or front office in response to Cutler's trade demand?
Here you go again. Copout City, USA. Again, the situation you speak of is a common occurrence in the world of sports. Another day at the office. This cannot be stressed enough because this is the point you are overlooking/exaggerating the most. It was a rumor! Speculation! An idea! Something discussed that never happened. If we had a dime for every time a situation like this came up in the world of sports we would both be millionaires. Please stop trying to give substance to something that never took place! I’ll assume since you post here you’re an NBA fan too. Think of what happened with Tyson Chandler: traded, fails physical, return to sender. If I went by your logic this would be like dropping the atomic bomb on the Hornets when in reality it was a business decision that, quite frankly, wasn’t that big of a deal. Both sides accepted the outcome and didn’t make a bigger issue out of it. You can say “NBA vs. NFL = apples and oranges” but in this case it’s an EXTREME example of a situation that went much further than this Cassel/Cutler thing ever did. How would you classify this Cassel/Cutler uhh….”thing”? I’ve stated it’s simple trade talk that happens all the time. Apparently you see much more to it. How would you classify this? Give me a word if my labels of speculation, hypothetical and whatever are all wrong. McDaniels is guilty only of initially denying those reports. Everything else is on Cutler, how he reacted (er, overreacted) and the consequential actions from both sides as a result to how Cutler reacted. If that still sounds like a McDaniels-created mess then I am simply at a loss for words. I agree he earned his demotion despite the 7-4 record, but what he did from 2002-2005 is not irrelevant. Not at all. That’s calling having a good track record and proving you can lead winning a team to the playoffs. How do you roll your eyes at that? Once Cutler was drafted you knew it was only a matter of time before he supplanted Plummer. Much like with the Brady Quinn situation with the Browns. You don’t take a QB in the first round of the draft then pay him to hold a clipboard. That much I agree with and is obvious. Still, I think it’s kind of hilarious a “can’t miss” prospect and first-round talent like Cutler hasn’t even proved to be an upgrade over Plummer yet. Don’t tell that to Cutler though. I’m sure in his mind he’s already on Peyton Manning or Tom Brady’s level. At least, according to his agent he is. You act like no team with a great offense and bad defense has ever made the playoffs before. The fact of the matter is the Broncos were in position to make the playoffs the past two years before they wilted tremendously down the stretch of the season. Again, NO that’s not entirely on Cutler but he played poorly and this is football – a brutally, unfair business where the success and failure of a team starts and ends with the QB. Could the defense have played better? Absolutely. Does a QB deserve blame if the defense is inadequate? No. Does a defense deserve blame if a QB plays poorly? Usually not – circumstances play a lot into and if you’re playing from behind it makes your playcalling very predictable. Only, I watched those games down the stretch. Cutler played like the crap, had a QB rating in the low 70’s. You can call me lazy, ill-informed or whatever all you want. I watched those games and know what I saw. That team gagged and Cutler was unimpressive. Well, I never argued Jake Plummer was Joe Montana either. Every single mention I have made on Plummer is strictly on a Plummer vs. Cutler basis. "Commitment happy" is a term i've used to reference how you seem so convinced Cutler's intentions are genuine, that he wants nothing more than to be a Bronco, that he was searching from a commitment from McDaniels and the Broncos that he's their QB, and how he supposedly did not get that. Basically, i'm weeding through all the BS from the Cutler camp about him wanting to be a Bronco, mocking his agent's claim that all they wanted was some sort of promise from the Broncos and all that nonsense. I've made it clear I think Cutler is manipulative and will do/say whatever it takes to get what he wants: out of Denver and more power. Well, if that's the case at least McDaniels got it right that his "wife" is overrated, replaceable (with Cassel and possibly with Stafford if Detroit tries to become involved) and doesn't deliver when it counts the most. Of course, the "husband" in this case, McDaniels, didn't factor in his wife being a selfish, immature lunatic.
that’s not a copout; i’m not using it to disparage jake plummer but to temper your singing of jake plummer’s praises. he's a QB that tends to be as good as the team around him. not a huge slam - this describes the majority of nfl QBs. what?? flip back through the thread, baller4life315: you admitted to mad max that there’s no precedent for this... so who are the last... five seemingly content pro bowlers cutler's age and pedigree that have been knowingly shopped. i don’t doubt a lot of machinations go on behind the scenes we never hear about, but… like bus cook said: when was the last time you heard peyton manning’s name floated in a rumor? semantics, perhaps – but it was not a rumor! it wasn’t speculative! legitimate trade talks took place; several teams exchanged offers; the broncos coach said timing was the only reason a deal wasn’t consummated… that's pretty substantive. i’d like to see this list of 10M all-star level players that have been actively and publicly shopped – hell, i’ll settle for 10. not particularly. sorry; not dismissing it – i heard about it but i don’t really follow the NBA so i don’t really know any details. but i can tell you one big difference is that it happened in-season so they could move onto the next game – that’s a big difference. but again – this situation is unique because mcdaniels is the brand new coach and he’s supposed to be spending this time building a relationship with his new QB; not alienating him. that’s the crux of my argument here - how can anyone not think mcdaniels has bungled this? i’ve spent the last 4 pages doing that, lol – but OK, here goes: a josh mcdaniels clucterf***. how’s that? wait… i thought it was all just rumor and speculation – so what was he denying? this is why i made the cheating analogy; mcdaniels slept around and you think cutler’s in the wrong for getting upset about it. sorry; i’m prone to side with the scorned… fine; then his cardinal tenure is on the table, too – how’s his track record look now? even with denver, he still has a career losing record. he’s a product of a good team – no shame in that; but i doubt canton took much interest. cutler’s a better QB; plummer had a better team boy, you REALLY dislike jay cutler – are you willing to acknowledge that’s playing SOME role in this?... historically bad offenses/defenses do not routinely make the playoffs – not without the other unit being an all-time great. denver's defense was flat-out terrible last year. not kinda, sorta terrible - they were AWFUL. it’s the domain of knee-jerks and casual fans. blaming (or hailing) a QB is easy and requires zero thought. but it’s never that easy. i’ve never absolved jay cutler; i just find it perplexing you think having the conference's worst defense isn’t the big, big problem here… talk about copouts…… they were the 29th-ranked defense in all of football! and you want to talk about jay cutler? so giving up 28 points/game doesn’t put any additional pressure on your QB? that’s not going to wear him down over the course of a season? especially when his leading rusher is peyton hills, or whoever it was? come on, man – i know you know better than that…. you’re arguing with yourself; i never hailed cutler or defended his performance in those games. …while conveniently ignoring the other 52 players on the roster. that was all speculative; i came to cutler’s defense initially because every indication was that mcdaniels had bungled the situation and that the rush to pillory cutler seemed WAY premature. it didn’t help that you obviously had an axe to grind with him, so it got personal pretty quickly. as more has come out, i think cutler wanting out because of shanahan and bates leaving makes sense and i’ve never backed off of that. i don’t think he acted like a baby about it, though, and if – IF, IF, IF – he really was sincere about wanting to stay in denver, i think he had every right to be pissed at mcdaniels. that’s really where i was. should he still be pissed? i don’t know all the details, but it seems a little silly, yes. but i still drop the majority of this on mcdaniels. he was slow on cassel and now he’ll likely lose cutler – he’s undermined himself completely; just an epic screw-up that will likely haunt his (i'm going to guess brief) tenure in colorado.
It absolutely is a copout. I'm comparing Plummer to Cutler in a quantitative and logical fashion yet i'm being mocked with your Terry Bradshow/Joe Montana references for doing so. It's a complete copout and it proves nothing. Sure, there's not much of a precedent for this but you tell me what stating that proves. It proves nothing. Why? Because there's still a problem! It still happened. Attempting to apply this "never trade your 25-and-under franchise QB" conventional wisdom crap makes no sense when the deed has already been done. Denver thought they saw an opportunity to improve their team so, like any GM would have done, they explored the possibility and like most "possibilities" most of them never come to fruition. Condemning this considered move so vehemently is a tremendous disservice to Matt Cassel because by all accounts he's every bit as good as Cutler and can certainly challenge his trade value on the open market. What's funny to me is you still continue to deny that this is typical, common scenario in sports. You act like trade rumors and speculation are a new movement. Spare me the "Name me somebody like Cutler has been shopped" talk because it happened. Cassel is on Cutler's level and it happened. There is no rule preventing it, therefore applying this precedent talk that you and MadMex have used to justify Cutler's actions and condemn the Broncos front office is completely irrelevant. It happened and it remains no different than any other trade rumor or scenario. And did you just compare Jay Cutler to Peyton Manning? If it didn't happen, no it's not. I'm not trying to debate semantics here but you're in denial if you think this is any different than routine trade talk. If the deal was submitted for league approval and rejected, if a player fails a physical and gets sent back, if the deal is in place yet somebody exercises a no-trade-clause, or anything like this. These are all scenarios that are 10x more substantive than this Cassel/Cutler thing. It was an idea that was discussed, dismissed and then ultimately leaked. Cutler's reaction is what made the story what it is. Not that Cutler makes $10M but this is a common occurrence in baseball. Granted, baseball players get paid a ton so you could destroy a list like that with the Manny Ramirez's, A-Rod's and guys like that of the world. You could easily get 10 there alone. With hockey it's different considering the best players in hockey make like $5M a year. Basketball, it's fairly common especially given the economic climate the way it is: Shaq, Nash, Vince Carter, etc all those type of players are big named, All-Star level players meeting your salary and availability requirements. Not to mention the wave of 2010 panic moves we'll see between this summer and February 2010. Much like the NHL, the average NFL player earns about 1/3 of what an NBA player earns. QB's are routinely the highest paid in the NFL and given that not many QB's are being discussed in trade rumors, this talk is fairly pointless. You don't really need to follow the NBA to get the simplified version: Team A trades with Team B, Team B doesn't like results of Player X's physical so Player X gets returned to Team A. If I went by your reasoning this would be like dropping the atomic bomb. It was just a rumor and speculation. I never said otherwise. Scorned? Really? Let's take a minute and pause on that word. Scorned: "Contempt or disdain felt toward a person or object considered despicable or unworthy." You want to talk about the mother of all hyperbole? You just won the award. Remember: hearing your name in a trade rumor is an automatic indictment. It's an attempt to rid yourself of somebody. It's a practice that almost never takes place in sports. Lesson learned! Cutler probably is a better QB but he hasn't shown it yet. I have a feeling he will, but then again, if he gets traded to the Lions and wins 15 games over the course of the next 4-5 years we'll still be in the same position we're in right now: me arguing he's overrated, you arguing his team sucks and both of us rolling are eyes at each other. Of course having a bad defense is a big problem but the point is teams have still made the playoffs with a bad defense and good offense. Hell, look at the 2008 Arizona Cardinals if you need an example. The point is even despite the Broncos' dreadful defense they were still in position to make the playoffs but gagged severely down the stretch. I realize the whole crux of your argument is Cutler is blame free in any situation in life but even you must acknowledge the fact that he contributed to the Broncos' late season demises the past two seasons. No, it's not all on him but -again- I watched those games and know what I saw. He played poorly too just like the rest of his teammates. He's a good player but he is not blame free. Understood that we're clearly on two different sides of the playing field here. Personally, I think your evidence (or lack thereof) for shifting the majority of blame on McDaniels is weak. Not that my argument is perfect either: trying to dissect Cutler's actions is pure speculation on my part. I guess we could go back-and-forth for days on this. I do apologize earlier for questioning your reading comprehension -- that was out of line.
1. Cutler has only been in the league 3 years and a full starter for about 2 and quarter. And lead his team to the 2nd ranked offense in the league without any great RBs. The Broncos won 8 games with a defense giving up over 28 points a game. That's usually good reflection of the offense with anyone slightly lesser talented at QB or a drop off in talent on offense, the Broncos could've easily fell to 4 or 5 wins. In other words, Cutler (and the offense) carried this team. Also, I think you have selective memory about Plummer's performances. He was an above-average QB at his very best and didn't have any kind of memorable playoff performance. He only threw for 20+ touchdowns once in his career and had 4 seasons throwing 20+ ints with an equal amount of career touchdowns and interception (161). The other QBs that have had that many seasons of 20+ interceptions are the likes of Favre, Marino, Tesetaverde, Blanda, Bradshaw, Lamonica, and few others. Only thing is most of those players were in the league for very long time and had way more passing touchdowns than Plummer. His career completion percentages were much closer to Michael Vick's (lacking the running ability, though) than they were to the Peyton Manning's and Tom Brady's. Cutler's first 3 years in the season blow away Plummer's 3 first years in Arizona (and his 3 best years in career). The only reason Jake ever ended up in playoff was because some of the teams he was on were very talented with great head coach. He never played high enough to get any of those Broncos team's to another level. You don't remember the talking heads of ESPN/Fox Sports, constantly criticizing Plummer for never being a big game player or turning the ball over too much. It was usually the defense that played well enough for his team to win. Jake was the type of QB who either needed his defense to be successful or play the ineffectual game-manager with a few hints of athletic ability to be successful. It was the Broncos top 10 defense that helped them get to the playoffs with their consistent "running" game. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/ Cutler is the very opposite, he has a big time arm and can make any throw on the field in very tight places. Jay also can move the ball up the field really well and is a gamebreaker. Who doesn't quite turn the ball over as much. He's done far more in two an half season than Plummer has done for most of his career Denver ended up right where most analyst had them at 8 to 9 wins with a possible playoff appearance. San Diego was the front runner in the pre-season, the only reason Denver got the playoff noise was because of their unexpected 4-0 start. Also, McDaniels did try to trade for Cassel, which in essence meant Cutler was headed out of town. Which means the new coach actually considered "dumping the franchise QB, for a more expensive, probably lesser talent QB."
I think you are right. They wouldn't accept a straight up trade. I would throw in a third round pick this year and a number 2 next year. They can probably do better than that, but the Broncos will want to get a quarterback and the usual suspects (Jets, Vikings, Bears, Lions, Bucs) don't have one to offer. The tricky thing for the Texans is that this could blow up in their face and they would be in the same boat as the Broncos with an unhappy qb. That's why I think they will sit this opportunity out.
