I was just having some fun with your "IT'S NO BIG DEAL" claim meanwhile his agent was barking the differences could be irreconcilable, Cutler's history of attitude/ego issues and the simple vibe you got that this wouldn't all just go away. My stance was pretty consistent too and as it turns out I was right about this being more than a mere hiccup. From a historical standpoint I agree there isn't much of a precedent for this. What stating that proves I have no idea. Stating that doesn't change the fact that there's still a problem. Stating that doesn't get you any closer to a solution. This is an unique situation. I'm not sure how applying the conventional wisdom of never trading your 25-or-under-franchise-QB applies to this situation. Is the Cutler camp supposed to hear that then just forget it all? Is the Denver camp supposed to hear that then just call up Cutler and say "Whatever it takes. DONE"? By all accounts, it sounds like Denver doesn't appear ready to grant Cutler a trade. Obviously that might change once the draft and what not rolls around but for right now you get the feeling Denver is willing to just ignore all the BS and move forward. If Cutler is as 'commitment happy' as you make him sound, shouldn't this be considered progress? The irony in all this is how Cutler was even acquired in the first place. Jake Plummer was fresh off of leading the Broncos to the AFC Championship Game (before losing to my Steelers ) after which Cutler was drafted in the offseason. You seem pretty big on empathizing with players: what kind of picture does that type of move paint? Furthermore, the next season the Broncos were 7-4 when Shanahan made the decision to replace the erratic Plummer with then-rookie Cutler. How do you think this made Plummer "feel"? Did Plummer create a media circus? Did he do everything humanly possible to become a giant distraction? No, he didn't because he's a mature professional athlete. We've beaten this to death. I respect your unusual approach to the matter. I'm sure the 14.5 Cutler apologists out there really do feel having your feelings hurt warrants all this nonsense: lashing out at your superiors, ignoring phone calls, demanding a trade whenever the front office refused to cave in to his implied demand for an apology, ignoring protocol in the matter. I've stated McDaniels was in the wrong for initially denying it but I respect his manner and tone going into this meeting. Again, I feel he did what any coach or GM should have done in the matter: explain the situation, make it clear [from a leverage standpoint] that no apology was necessary and make steps towards moving forward. By Cutler's own admission he didn't respond well to McDaniels' "So Jay, is this something we can put behind us?" underlying question throughout the entire sit-down. I've also stated how I think Cutler's had his mind made up for quite some time. That his response to the Jeremy Bates firing, the "coincidence" that he & his parent's homes have been up for sale and this recent Cassel debacle all paint the picture of somebody very unhappy in their current situation. I think he's upset his status as a franchise QB does not come with any pull within the front offices. I also think his ego is so off-the-charts ridiculous he now won't be happy unless his superiors cave into his demands and start groveling. You seem so intent on trying to compare this situation to a business scenario -- Can you imagine a big corporation begging for forgiveness from an employee that they feel was in the wrong in first place?
apples and oranges, really. first of all, you’re completely recasting jake plummer as some modern day johhny unitas. he lost his job because of poor play on the field. he posted a 69 QB rating that year while throwing more INTs (13) than TDs (11). his YPA was an awful 6.29, down more than a yard from the previous year, and his completion % was the lowest of his career since 1999 (55.2). the team was 7-4 in spite of jake plummer, not because of him. if they had traded for cassel with the idea of creating some competition and cutler whined, i’d think differently, more in line with where you’re coming from. but this idea he should be a “man” and be OK with a “cheating” head coach/offensive coordinator, who has made it very clear he prefers someone else, is silly, IMO. what is his incentive to play for josh mcdaniels right now? what has josh mcdaniels done to ensure cutler he has his best interests in mind? he tried to replace him and then lied to him about it… and this is 90% cutler’s fault???? i just don’t see it. i’ve never excused cutler but to throw this all on him when all he’s done is react to a situation mcdaniels created…. go back to the links you’ve provided throughout this thread, baller4life315 - all those bronco sites: the number is far greater than 14.5. it'll be considerably more 8 games into the chris simms era... you keep derisively dismissing cutler's actions - cry baby, hissy fit, hurt feelings... i'm at a loss how he's SUPPOSSED to react to his new coach/offensive coordinator trying to replace him before they even step onto the practice field together. i agree with most of this (though i think the houses were put up for sale after the cassel debacle???); it all seems perfectly viable, logical… so where does the baby, hissy fit, hurt feelings come in? if he’s unhappy with the ousting of his coach and coordinator and then the new coach/coordinator introduces himself by trying to trade for his guy…. i just don’t find being irrevocably pissed about the situation that far off base. granted, few businesses pay their employees such outrageous salaries so as to create such a power struggle - that's unique to professional sports and not really the point. his reaction - being pissed - is one, i’m sure, many employees would share if they were put in a similar situation. and if they DID have such power, would likely exercise it they way cutler has.
I'm curious what the people who want Cutler think it would take to get him? I heard Matt Jackson saying Shaub and our number 1 and I was floored. What the hell would be the point of that? If you believe Cutler would be an upgrade, is it worth it to slightly improve at QB and to lose a 1st or 2nd round pick when we have more pressing needs?
No way I'd give up Schaub and a #1. If the Broncs trade Cutler it will be because they have to. That presses value down. Schaub is a real, legit starter. If healthy, he can put up numbers as well as Cutler can. I don't know if straight up for Schaub would get it....you might have to include a draft pick....but you shouldn't have to give up a first rounder.
yeah, i think cutler would definitely be an upgrade but when you start including picks... well, i'm not sure the upgrade is that significant. if i'm denver, i'd be thrilled to turn jay cutler into matt schaub - given the circumstances.
wait - that's what he thinks it'll take to land cutler? or is that what he's willing to deal to land cutler? either/or is ridiculous, frankly. schaub can't stay healthy; otherwise, he's a top 10 28-year old QB without the wear and tear of most 28-year old QBs. denver would be moronic to not see schaub as a "win" given the circumstances.
do you think? i mean, pissed that they dealt cutler and "downgraded" - sure. but to land a quality, young-ish starter at the end of such a massive cluster... i'd think they'd be thrilled.
I think if they lose Cutler, they're going to be pissed...no matter what. i don't think they're going to see the lemonade in the lemons...i think they'll be furious with McDaniels.
Matt Jackson was saying what he thinks it would take. Then Rich Lord piped in saying he didn't think that would be enough and I nearly had to pull over.
immediately discount anything rich lord says. The man knows as much about Houston sports as my 2 year old son.
jeez... seems inflated. i can see denver being justified in wanting schaub and a pick - makes sense: cutler, on paper, is an upgrade. but i wouldn't do it if i were the texans. interestingly, the cassel deal is really, i think, going to complicate things. he AND ANOTHER PLAYER went for a 2 - how is denver going to convince teams that cutler is 2 or 3 premium picks better than matt cassel? i would think 2 day 1 picks and maybe a future pick is going to be the market value. then again, i can't ever remember a 25-year old pro bowl QB being traded so...
I wasn't trying to recast Plummer as anybody but you could tell by the context of what I wrote I was implying Plummer knew how to do something Cutler doesn't: WIN. Plummer led the Broncos to three playoff appearances in three years. One of those years they were a game away from the Super Bowl. Cutler has never even had a winning season. Cutler has never led a team to the playoffs, has an unimpressive 17-20 record as a starter and threw more INT's last year than anybody in the league not named Brett Favre. Furthermore, it's hard not to point out his whopping yardage numbers are undeniably skewed due to the Broncos always playing from behind. I may not like Cutler but he has one of the best arms the in the league. The point is even Matt Leinart could throw against a fricken prevent. You say i'm overrating Plummer? Right back at ya with your boy, Cutler. Only my argument doesn't hinge on Jake Plummer's value in the future. Cheating? His incentive to play for Josh McDaniels right now is that he's still the starter. It's not like McDaniels plans to bench him. Cutler claims he still loves playing in Denver, right? Go out there and prove him wrong. If Cutler was half as passionate about his performance on the field as he is feeding his ego the Broncos might actually scare somebody! An obvious fundamental disagreement between us is my opinion of a trade rumor vs. your opinion of a malicious attempt to rid yourself somebody. They are clearly not the same thing. Cutler was quoted in that ESPN article I posted that his house has been up for sale for a couple months and that it was merely a "coincidence" regarding the timing issue. As I mentioned, I don't buy that. I think he's wanted out for quite some time and is using this situation to spark the inferno and shift blame from himself to the Broncos.
I agree. This thread is pointless. These guys are essentially slightly better than average QB's who wouldn't make the starting lineup on the best teams but may be able to develop nicely in an "up and coming" team's lineup. Thus, why make any move? Lateral moves are something to give fanboys something to analyze. This one in particular helps neither team involved. Well, okay, maybe it helps Denver unload a problem. Are we really that concerned about Denver that we help them with that problem? No. I mean, honestly, why don't we just go ahead and offer up Andre to Buffalo for TO? Let's help Buffalo before that situation implodes.
I don't think this is right. I was listening to them on the way home yesterday around 4 pm and Rich Lord kept insisting that Schaub and our #15 pick is where the negotiations would START, indicating he thought we would have to give up even more than that. Jackson was arguing with him saying he didn't think Denver would get anywhere near that much because they had so little leverage. Rich Lord is such a ******* moron. He gets these takes that have no basis in logic or history and he'll argue them with this his ridiculous tone of superiority. I don't know how Pallilo put up with him for so long. I'm pretty sure Matt Jackson didn't think it would take anywhere near Schaub and our 1st round pick to land Cutler. Matt's usually pretty level headed.
A lateral move on the field... but Cutler is younger and cheaper. If you're the Texans, you jump all over that.
good teams - with very few exceptions - already have good-to-great QBs. so it's completely disingenuous to knock them because they wouldn't start ahead of a peyton manning or a tom brady. if you're getting younger and more durable with a higher ceiling, it's not a lateral move - which is why your andre/TO analogy is a fail.
I think the durability knock is overblown too. Do people really believe that had Cutler suffered the two illegal hits that knocked Schaub out for 5-6 games total (can't remember the exact amount) WOULD'T have done the same to Cutler? I look at replays of those hits and I think anyone would have missed several games.
yeah, plummer certainly did a lot of winning in arizona didn’t he - 34-62 as a starter with the cardinals. funny how he suddenly “learned” to win consistently when he was dealt to an infinitely better *team*… probably a coincidence, right? saddling W/L records on any individual player is absolutely ridiculous. the broncos didn’t win because of jake plummer nor did they lose because of jay cutler. for the record, plummer was 1-3 in four playoff games with the broncos. i don’t point that out to rip the guy but if you’re going to pretend jake plummer is joe montana reincarnated, a small dose of reality is needed. he won when he was part of a great team; he lost when the team wasn’t so great – that’s the story of very nearly every qb – nay, player to ever play the game. he also threw more passes than any other player in the league not named drew brees (who threw one fewer INT) and his defense gave up more points than any other defense not named detroit or st. louis – you know, the two teams picking first and second in next month’s draft. the two are related. but the 17-20 record is HIS fault?... how am i overrating him? he’s a 25-year old former top 11 pick who’s made a pro bowl and is about to start his third full season as a starter in the NFL. there aren’t too many guys *available* with his pedigree. and i’m going to guess that if he is dealt, the line for his services will be long and distinguished. (like my johnson! /goose) LOL - it wasn’t a rumor; mcdaniels not only owned up to it - he explicitly implied – after a heal-the-wounds meeting with cutler – that the only reason cassel wasn’t a bronco is because the team was “ too late to the dance.” i don’t think mcdaniels is malicious; i think he’s stupid, arrogant and in way over his head. and he’s probably derailed his coaching career before it even started by pissing off (and likely losing) the one – and only – thing he had going for him in denver.
