lol...you really that offended that i put an extra 'l' on cassel's name? schaub and cassel are pretty much the exact size and build, and are pocket passers, which is exactly what mcdaniel wants, and exactly what he doesn't trust jay cutler to be. what characteristics are you comparing??
not offended.. maybe offended that you're relating him to Sam Cassell yeah I don't think that's what McDanielS wants. He liked Cassel cause he has had him as a QB since the beginning in the NFL. And Cassel already knows the offense he is putting in, whereas Cutler has to learn it all. Not huge, but also no small task. I don't think size, build, and that he is a pocket passer are what made McDaniels think Cassel would be better than Cutler
Feel free to spin that however you want. I'm not looking for a "You were right, I was wrong" concession from you. I don't care. I was just taken back that somebody could actually derive a serious argument defending Cutler in this instance. He's 90% in the wrong in the matter, IMO. The other 10% falls on the feet of McDaniels for initially denying the Cassel reports.
even now?? after mcdaniels admits they did initiate trade conversations?? meaning he lied earlier when he said they didn't...even now, you don't think that's wacky?
That's still a common occurrence in professional sports though. Players don't deserve an explanation from a coach, GM or owner if their name pops up in a trade rumor. Enter Jay Cutler: somebody too arrogant to accept that yes, even the glorious Jay Cutler, isn't immune to [in this case] one isolated trade rumor. I agree totally that McDaniels was in the wrong for initially denying that they tried to deal for Cassel. That's the only area where he was in the wrong. Everything else is on Cutler, IMO. I think Cutler made up his mind he wanted out a while ago. Back when the first reports of him possibly requesting a trade came out it was in response to his displeasure over the Broncos firing his old o-coordinator. After that there were the reports that Cutler and his parents curiously put their Denver area homes up for sale. Finally, we have the whole Matt Cassel fiasco and Cutler's subsequent immature reactions. His actions suggest he appears upset that his status as a franchise quarterback apparently doesn't come with the ability to have any pull within the front offices. He wanted his o-coordinator to stay -- see ya. He wanted an apology from a front office staff trained to entertain 100,000 proposals like the one Cutler was involved in -- he didn't get it.
and i think all of this was mcdaniels playing tough..."i'm in charge here, and i'll show you!!!" even if that cost him a good young QB. look if this whole thing costs the broncos cutler, then it's stupid as hell. they've seriously hurt the team if that's the case. it's their job to manage this thing...including athletes acting immaturely. and they've botched it big time. and by the way...i keep hearing all this stuff about, "everyone can be traded." but other than drew brees and that exceptional circumstance, can you name me a quarterback at cutler's age with his relative success who has been the subject of trade rumors?? i'm guessing you can't.
McDaniels did what any coach or GM should have done in the same situation: explained the situation, made it clear no apology was necessary and made steps to move forward by essentially asking, "Jay, is this something we can put behind us?". By all accounts he did that. Cutler, to me, sounds power hungry. Not only the reasons I mentioned but it appears he was searching for some sort of "We're sorry, Jay. We were wrong" admission that he could hang over their heads. No front office is going to give that type of leverage to a player. What relative success do you speak of? And guessing, indeed you are. You want a name? When when was the last time an offseason passed where we didn't hear Donovan McNabb mentioned in trade talks? Somebody that's demonstrably more accomplished, and quite frankly, twice the player. Have you ever seen McNabb act this irrationally in response to those rumors? Nope, McNabb is a true professional that understands the nature of the game and the cliched motto that "sports are a business" model that permeates everything that takes place from a roster transaction standpoint in sports. Cutler has acted far from professionally throughout all this.
In fairness, McNabb trade stories are media speculation. Never before, to my knowledge, has McNabb found out that his team tried to trade him and another team made a deal instead. Also, we don't know the whole story about what went on between coach and player. I'm reasonably certain that Cutler was told he was their QB, blah blah blah, and then found out they were trying to deal him. You can't lie to players and expect them to be ok with you. Lastly, I laugh at the idea that McNabb is twice the player Cutler is. He's certainly more accomplished...
In no way is Donovan McNabb "a quarterback at cutler's age with his relative success." McNabb is an old man with a big contract. I'm talking about a young QB who has been a Pro Bowler early on. Who has had some success and shows signs of sticking around for a long time. Who is still inexpensive, to boot. The only comparable example I can think of is Drew Brees...but that was a peculiar situation with the Chargers already having his replacement in house...who was younger and wouldn't command a long-term contract as soon. I keep hearing that players like this are shopped all the time...but I can't think of any examples other than the Brees scenario who is comparable to Cutler's situation.
I mean, he's 32-years-old and it's the same point: there are ways to handle a situation like this and there are ways NOT to handle a situation like this. McNabb and Cutler are perfect examples of this. You're right that there's not much of a precedence for situations like this. It's a unique situation brought on by unusual circumstances.
I know there's pages and pages devoted to this thread, but I'm going to go ahead and post my gut response: YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS! Schaub and a 2nd rounder? DONE. Schaub and the #15 pick? WHY THE HELL NOT!? Cutler would go GA-GA throwing to the Texans' receivers. And they'd get a QB who can ACTUALLY STAY HEALTHY. Hell, I'd trade McNabb and the #1 for Cutler. It would make me forgive the Eagles for letting Dawkins go to the Broncos.
2008: 4.8 ypc (2nd in the NFL) 116.4 ypg (12th in NFL, with Houston at 13) 2007: 4.6 ypc (3rd in the NFL) 122.3 ypg (9th in the NFL, with Houston at 22)
The Broncos are desperately trying to make it look like they aren't going to be forced to deal him. They'll lose a considerable amount of leverage in any would-be deal.
Why are people acting like this new? QBs and other players, superstars to above average NFLers have done things, like this before. Even a rookie (unproven), John Elway who threatened not to play, after being drafted by Baltimore Colts and would opt to play baseball with the Yankees (minor leagues). If it is not Alonzo Mourning or a number of players who were traded to Jazz, or it's Eli Manning not wanting to play for the Chargers or Manny wanting to be traded out of Boston. Even, T.O. wanting out of SF and Philadelphia. Whether it is Scottie Pippen complaining about his contract (or refusing to leave the bench) and Kobe Bryant having rumblings with management over the way the team is going. What is wrong with a player wanting to leave, especially if it is a franchise player who is either: a) wanting a new deal, b) not getting along with team management or coach, c) not getting along with other players, or d) the organization is not either incompetent or not committed to winning. In this scenario, I would much rather keep Cutler and get rid of McDaniels than vice versa. What has McDaniels done to prove he is a worthy NFL head coach with this screw up he has made very early in his tenure? Besides, if there is a storm brewing between the franchise QB and a new (unproven) head coach . . . why let things go any further, if that QB is unhappy? Cutler on the other hand, has been a great young QB and has top 3-5 potential. There are a dozen of teams who make a bid to get Cutler, who is coming off a well deserved pro-bowl year. Denver could get some great deals for him, much better than what NWE got for Cassell. Basically, how many QBs in the draft have the same kind of potential or achievement possiblities as Cutler. I know Denver doesn't want him to leave, but you can't disgruntled players on your teams, especially superstar. There's too much in stake and potential damage involved. Best thing to do, is let Cutler go for a good deal from a team in dire need of a QB. It would be another story, if it were doing the season or halfway through training camp. But, the season just ended almost a month ago.
i'd have to think about it, but i wouldn't give up a 2nd and our starting qb for him. too much. maybe like a fourth round pick and a future 1st or something like that.
My Denver friends echo this. They say they feel like they know what they have and could have in Cutler...they have no idea if McDaniels is worth a damn...and they're pissed that this new coach has come in and tried to trade their starting QB before he even hits the practice field with him.
it's not spin, baller. it really, truly isn't - reread just the quote you pulled from me: look, i'm not saying it can't become a big deal; i'm saying it's not a big deal right now. my position has remained consistent: unless (or until) cutler did something disruptive (like miss a madatory team meeting or... you know, demand a trade), it wasn't a big deal. well... he's now done something disruptive... it's a big deal and you won't ever read me arguing otherwise. look, MadMax is right: there's next-to no precedent for this. even mcnabb's situation is different because he wasn't dealing with a brand new coach/offensive coordinator. that's why this is a big deal. if your new coach/offensive coordinator is trying to replace you before you have even one practice together... how is that not destructive to building a relationship? how is cutler 90% in the wrong?? please provide ONE instance - in any field you want - where that wouldn't create a giant problem? and - based on his OWN account -mcdaniels has handled it horribly on top of that. to come out of a meeting with your QB that you hoped would heal wounds saying, "we were just late to the dance" regarding cassel (implication being he would be a bronco otherwise)... i mean, how is jay cutler supposed to feel? it's football, so it's easy to view it in a manly sport where emotion is outlawed... but cutler has roots in denver - two homes, his family also owns another home; the broncos have a storied tradition, especially at the QB position where he was poised to be elway's heir apparent... throw in the fact talks had him going to several places including detroit... i don't blame him for being upset; i don't blame him for not trusting mcdaniels, and, frankly, i don't blame him for wanting out under these circumstances. why would ANYONE want to be somebody else's plan b?
i would offer them schaub period. i doubt they'll get a better offer. maybe detroit throws a 1 at them... but do they really want to groom a rookie QB? or sign jeff garcia? or tunr it over to chris simms? schaub is starting NFL qb with a track record of success very similiar to cutler's. so schaub alone is fair value, given the circumstances.
