Now that we're in the worst losing streak of the season, at the worst time of the season, I think I wanna change my vote - we should change the core. I also think JVG intends to change the core after the season is over. the reason I say that is because he has said that he doesn't know what to do. I think that, by this, he means that he has not been able to get his current players to perform the way he intends, and he is unable to remove those players. I think that, after the season, JVG will still believe that some his players will still have the same weaknesses and will drag the team down. He will probably trade those players for some who will play the way he wants. -- droxford
I voted yes to keep the core, but I consider Yao, JJ, Padgett even Cuttino the core. I like Cato aswell, but if i can be mixed in with Francis and others for an all star player that "fits" with this core, im all for it. I agree with another poster who said, JJ and padgett have been the only ones to show real hussle while playing smart unlike Francis, who shows hussle while playing dumb. I disagree with Puedlfor's logic and arguement to give francis and the rest one more season. I mean if you can't look at Francis now and see the same Francis of the last 4 years, his 1st being the only season where he did play differently which was more flashy, more dunking etc Then you are blind, it is clear as day. Unless you consider Francis' dropping shooting percentage and even dumber plays as a change from prior seasons. Ah and of course, his sudden attempt to try to shoot less and pass more, which isn't much of an improvement since his passing sucks if it's not an alley oop to a leaping Cato. Francis is just too much of stumbling buffoon to be the player that holds the ball in his hands the majority of the time. And to be the player that is responsible for dishing out passes. Let him be a two gaurd somewhere else, he'll excel and our team will excel by him not being here. I say somewhere else, duely to the reason of Cuttino providing a better two than Francis, he on the other hand has shown improvement, better defense, less erratic jump shots, and more willingness to adapt his game to being an effective second scoring option next to Yao. I agree with A-train's logic however, much more reasonable and shows more realistic hope and promise. Giving Francis and the rest one more year, would be useless and a waist of a year. He played the same with Rudy for 4 years, and is playing the same, with the exception of his flawed attempt to shoot less and pass more, and his dropping shooting percentage and his dumb but well meant hussling, with Van Gundy. He is now 27, has been 5yrs in the league and has not shown improvement at all worth noticing when compared to Yao's ACTUAL improvement, which occured in a period of 2yrs. THAT improvement, is worth being PATIENT on, cause it SHOWS SIGNS of a good player that can learn, can advance and can become better as he grows in the league. Notice how more quickly he improved? And as for your Francis had rudy and now has Van Gundy and needs time to adjust to his system, his theories, ideals yadda yadda Yao himself, has had a change with coaching styles, and it didn't stop him from shown his greatly noticeable improvement. Yao 2yrs with great improvement, Francis 5yrs with little improvement, that of his miserable attempt to pass more and shoot less, his passing just lacks, it's too damn streaky. All the while still being a dumb playmaker and an inept point gaurd. Please, you must see this when you look at Francis, he is just incapable of helping the Rockets anymore. I admit, when he got us close to the playoffs, back when Rudy allowed Cat and him to ISO to their heart's content, he was quite helpful to the Rockets. But, guess what? The zone defense is in play now, ISO's won't cut it anymore. Let it go, move on along with the league's new rules and let our team improve itself even if it means cutting a player many here still appreciate and adore from those past events where ISO's helped us to a record JUST short of the playoffs. You must be reasonable here, open your eyes for god's sake. Let him go somewhere where he can be an allstar two, I rather have Cat here, better defense and better ability to adapt. That's my reason for wanting to move him, not because I have any personal vandetta with a basketball player i have never met or had the pleasure to conversate with. I just want what is best for the team. Alright? Easy, relax, yes some of us who still remain stubborn in blind loyalty to this player who once got us close to the playoffs in an ISO era, might be feeling at this moment our temperatures rising, angering to burst out in defense. But please, easy, calm, and try to see this with clear open eyes, ok? That is all I ask
Maybe JVG can hire an outstanding assistant coach that teaches and instructs the fundamentals and theory of fluid ball movement and the basics of passing from a fundamental standpoint to offset JVG's insistance of playing good D. The team lacks balance in this regard and most of the players are isolationists who simply dribble and shoot. When the team tries to pass the ball many of the passes are telegraphed and easily anticipated by the defenses they face or the passes lack the proper velocity and are easily intercepted. I think there may be too much of an emphasis on D and JVG needs to expand his coaching of fundamentals to include crisp ball movement and player movement to eliminate the turnovers. The current players ARE rather fond of FGA's and perhaps a roster tweaking would be helpful but this team has some deeply engrained bad habbits with regards to no passing or poor passing and this needs to be corrected by any means necessary.
The Houston Rockets are two years away from a championship...THE BIG BROADCAST OF 2006 is coming up! Make on that, true fans! Unfortunately, the Rocket fans are starting to sound like Laker balls, spoiled, fairweather, pusilanimous followers of gthe Rockets. I live in L.A., heard some of the Portland/Lakers game and those cowards who filled the seats of the Staples Center were booing their team. So much for loyalty. We need to let this team grow together. Don't trade Steve. Don't trade Cat. Don't trade any of the core nucleus...keeping O.T./Dream/Kenny/Mad Max and adding some terrific role players led to our first crown. With Franchise/Dynasty/Cat/Cato/JJ/Mo T/Pike and others, we can win the gold trophy once again. Some members of this board have been fans of the Rockets I'm certain for decades; others might be relatively new - a few months, a year maybe. I have been a Houston Rockets fan since 1993, a year before we took the championship. I've endured sneer and ridicule in L.A., especially in 2000, wearing my Olajuwon and Barkley jerseys and Houston Rocket shirts on my way to class. This team has had its share of ups and downs...the Barkley Trade, the Barkley/Drexler feud, losing to Seattle in '93, '96, Utah in '97, '98, the Pippen fiasco, not making it to the playoffs for four consecutive seasons, Dream's foolish, arrogant pride, among others. Seeing the Rockets LOSE, LOSE, AND LOSE AGAIN on NBC. Hearing we only won in '94 and '95 because of Jordan's retirement (those Bulls with Paxson, Cartwright, etc. would have eventually lost and we would have been the ones to do it. It's unfortunate we never got the chance to prove it). The list is more extensive than this....but there have been plenty of setbacks and disappointments. I REPEAT: DON'T TRADE THE CORE. DEFINITELY DO NOT TRADE STEVE, CAT, YAO, CATO, TAYLOR, OR JJ!!!! For one thing, although Steve still has much to learn (even Michael Jordan, by his standards, never truly mastered EVERYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL, NEVER HAVING A 'PERFECT GAME'.). Steve is becoming smarter and more unselfish. This is good. We don't need Iverson, Bibby, Marbury, Baron Davis or some other clowns ruining the upcoming BIG BROADCAST OF 2006 - THE ROCKETS 3RD CHAMPIONSHIP. The crown will be ours again....just like a playoff berth is imminent...this is a sign of good things to come. 2006 + ROCKETS = CHAMPIONSHIP Just relax, Rocket fans. The best is yet to come.
I agree that no one wants to have to trade anybody, but if you look at this team---if you have actually watched any of their games---you must see that Steve has regressed, that we have no real floor leader (Yao, Steve, etc) and no confidence when the pressure is applied (winning close games; slacking off when we think the playoffs are a lock, etc). Four or five years in the league and Steve is still dribbling into the teeth of the defense and whipping a pass back over his shoulder, where Doug Christie or whatever defender is waiting to intercept it. Or Steve is dribbling, dribbling. Steve needs to be an Iverson-type player and that ain't gonna happen with us.
Yeah, this offseason when some major trades are made... Otherwise, just tell me when you want me to wake you up from this 2006 championship delusion you have with this current team...
Drastic changes are due this summer for sure. It's painfully obvious Francis' day is limited if we can move him no matter how big his heart is. I like Francis a lot but he's just not capable of doing what JVG asks him to do day in and day out. I'm tire that The Rox are being look at as a joke in the NBA. Winning against the best team in the NBA, and losing to the worst teams in the NBA.
Not the Jordan comparisons...purdy please....? Apples and oranges.... Jordan = Underpaid (1989), freak of nature, scoring, assist making shooting guard, bonified bad ass!!! "Hmmm, maybe we should keep Jordan? We might have something here!" Francis = Overpaid, high jumping, mid-scoring, turnover king, wanna-be shooting guard, max contract player..."Five years and little improvement? Could the player be the problem? Hmmmm....?" Again...apples and oranges. Wanna keep him? Ok.....give him a pay cut and bring in more talent. But why do that when you can just trade? We can never be an efficient team with our PG leading the league in turnovers. It's that simple. He's a liability. I mean, if he's going to average 3.7 TO a game, at least up the assists to around 8 or 9. But he can't. His propensity to accumulate turnovers seem to be directly tied is his inability to gain assist. This is strange, because there are guards that only achieve 5.5 assist per game, but are able to keep their TO rate under 2.9. (Even Kevin Garnett is at 5.1 and 2.6. And he's a forward). That shows you that it's not necessarily tied. That shows you that there are good PGs that don't have great court vision, but yet they still don't turn the ball over. They know their limitations. Francis seems to force the issue when he shouldn't and get pressured into turnovers when he shouldn't. Does he think he's better than he really is? By the way....has anyone noticed that Steve Nash has moved up in the total statistical rankings this year? He's lowered his ppg from 17.7 to 14.8....but, he's shooting 47FG% and getting 8.9 assist with only 2.7 turnovers per game. Oh, and shooting 91% from the FT line and 39% from the 3pt line. He's joined Sam Cassell and a few others in the "efficient pg" category. Sigh.... I remember back when Kenny Smith would make a bone-head mistake. I think to myself, "Come on Kenny! You know better than that. You can play smart." And he would. Today, I can't say that about Francis. He doesn't know better. Inability to learn? What? Someone tell me.
This core of players does not fit together at all. Yao's style of play does not fit with Steve's style. Steve's style of play does not fit with Van Gundy's style. I am not even sure if Yao's style of play fits with Van Gundy's style.
One of things MJ never mastered was being a PG. He started as one or was switched to PG early in his carreer, but was quickly returned to SG. One of the knocks on Stevie when he came here was that he may never be a PG like we needed. He isn't. One of the things I like about JVG is that he has not made a bunch of knee-jerk trades. He has picked up some cheap, expendable players. Some of them, JJ and Spoon, are keepers the others may not be back. I guess everyone noticed that while Kato was on IR the rox hardly won a game. He would be too valuable as a backup if we get a starter at PF, so he'll be here next year, too. Mo Taylor is showing signs of his old promise. He and Kato make a pretty good team working together. The only one that is expendable and has serious trade value is 'guess who', Stevie Franchise. Yao will be here next year, but he has things still to work on. Jumping would be a good thing and my arthritic granny can hold a ball tighter. He needs a little toughness also. I think that all we need to get better next year is a quality PG and some role players. We floor leader seriously bad.
Here's my understanding of how the first championship team was built. Please pardon any spacing issues or research errors. The sequence is roughly that in which they joined the team. 1) Hakeem Olajuwon Drafted 1984 (#1) 2) Otis Thorpe Acquired 1988 (from Sacramento, for Rodney McCray and Jim Petersen) 3) Vernon Maxwell Acquired 1990 (from San Antonio, for cash) 4) Kenny Smith Signed as FA 1990 (previously with Sacramento) 5) Matt Bullard Signed as FA 1990 (previously not playing) 6) Robert Horry Drafted 1992 (#11) 7) Carl Herrera Signed as FA 1992 (previously playing in Spain) 8) Scotty Brooks Signed as FA 1992 (previously with Minnesota) 9) Sam Cassell Drafted 1993 (#24) 10) Eric Riley Acquired draft day 1993 (from Dallas for draft rights to Popeye Jones) 11) Richard Petruska Drafted 1993 (#46) 12) Mario Elie Signed as FA 1993 (previously playing in CBA) 13) Larry Robinson Signed as FA 1993 (previously with Washington) 14) Earl Cureton Signed to 10 day contract 1993 15) Chris Jent Signed to 10 day contract 1993 The point in this is that there were a lot of mid-level free agents signed to complement the stars we drafted or traded for (Dream, Thorpe, Horry, Cassell). Compare to this year's team: 1) Cuttino Mobley Drafted 1998 (#41) 2) Steve Francis Drafted 1999 (#2) 3) Kelvin Cato Acquired 1999 (with Stacey Augmon, Ed Gray, Carlos Rogers, Brian Shaw and Walt Williams for Scottie Pippen) 4) Maurice Taylor Signed as FA 2000 5) Yao Ming Drafted 2002 (#1) 6) Bostjan Nachbar Drafted 2002 (#15) 7) Eric Piatkowski Signed as FA 2003 (previously with LA Clippers) 8) Adrian Griffin Signed as FA 2003 (previously with Dallas) 9) Mike Wilks Signed as FA 2003 (previously in NBDL) 10) Jim Jackson Signed as FA 2003 (previously with Sacramento) 11) Scott Padgett Signed as FA 2003 (previously with Utah) 12) Clarence Weatherspoon Acquired 2003 (from New York, for Moochie Norris and John Amaechi) 13) Mark Jackson Signed as FA 2004 As I look through the historical teams, the current team compares about evenly, in my opinion, with the 1990-1991 team that went 52-30, and was swept by the Lakers in the first round. That team featured Dream, Thorpe, Smith, Maxwell, Bullard, Buck Johnson, Sleepy Floyd, David Wood, Mike Woodson, Kennard Winchester, Larry Smith, Dave Jamerson, Dave Feitl, and Adrian Caldwell. That team got to championship level primarily by signing Herrera, Brooks, and Elie, drafting Horry and Cassell, and letting go of a number of players.
heres my take. right now it seems like this team doesnt lack any talent. however, this team lacks leadership that i dont believe steve francis can provide. he simply doesnt fit in van gundy's system. even though francis is a great talent he is not a great player because great players are not hampered by a system. we must bring in a superstar player next to yoa who is willing to shoulder the load (pierce for example) and i would like to see cuttino come off the bench and still play his 30 mins a game which would help keep jim jackson fresh for the end of the season and he wont have to play 40 mins that way. i dont know maybe a 3 team deal that brings in brent barry and paul pierce and we give up francis and cato or something of that nature. what do you guys think?
I agree, this team underachieves for the talent they have. I hear all the time from announcers that the Rox backcourt is very athletic/talented, that Yao is the next dominant center, Cato is a force in the middle, Eric P is a great shooter etc. etc. Well if you have great ingredients and the product is mediocre then HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM. This team as it is currently put together doesn't shoot well enough or handle the ball well enough to contend for a championship. They better address these needs this off season, whether by a blockbuster trade or using the free agency route. If all we wind up doing is bringing in guys like MJ and Oak then we need to seriously think the management is the problem.
Are you a secret Knicks fan? Good God! Cuttino Mobley by himself is a better player than the weak, often injured Allen Houston. His contract is more obscene than a Robert Mapplethorpe exhibit...so we get one marginally better shooting two guard in replace for two younger and more versitle guards? Next.
