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Should the Astros go for Cliff Lee?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Marteen, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Member

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    The Astros shouldn't go after any big dollar players, including but not limited to Cliff Lee or Carl Crawford.

    It may be hard for some to accept but we aren't contending for a while. Wade is going to be smart and do this thing right. He may have come in initially with the task of remaining competitive while rebuilding but it's seems pretty clear that McLane has finally accepted reality.
     
  2. rikesh316

    rikesh316 Member

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    I don't trust Ed Wade. Feliz signing last year turned out terrible. I didn't like the Lyon signing as well. Lyon had a very solid year but giving 3 year deals to middle relievers never is a good idea. The year before he signed Mike Hampton, Russ Ortiz, and re-signed Darrin Erstad and all those moves turned out bad. The farm system has gotten better under him but in reality we won't know much better until players come to bigs and produce. I never understood why he picked up Moehler’s 3 million dollar option when you could have re-signed him for a minor league contract if he you wanted him back. I don't think he got enough for Oswalt considering how much money they sent to the Phillies. Wade is an upgrade over Pupura but I don't think he is the long-term guy for the Astros. He doesn’t strike me as the creative type. If you look the best GMs in baseball, most of them are young minds like Theo Epstein, Jon Daniels, Andrew Friedman, Tony Reagins, and Rubén Amaro, Jr. I want that type of GM.
     
  3. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    We would still be winning division championships if Hun was here
     
  4. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    They should call and then hangup when his agent starts laughing at Wade.
     
  5. rikesh316

    rikesh316 Member

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    I don't disagree. Gerry was great when he was here. I don't understand why he can't another GM job somewhere.
     
  6. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Lyon was signed as the closer and he performed well in that role. 3 years at 15 million or so for a closer is a reasonable amount.
     
  7. rockets934life

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    I believe it isn't so much that he can't but he doesn't want to. Mets wanted to interview him for their spot and he declined, I also remember reading either last offseason or the one before about him turning down an interview. Guy is comfortable, being part of a winner that will open up a new stadium shortly.
     
  8. rikesh316

    rikesh316 Member

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    That true but relievers are unpredictable. He had a very solid year but I doubt he can replicate that type of performance. He could have gone after someone like Rafael Soriano who all Tampa Bay give up for was a fringe AAA player.
     
  9. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Member

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    I wasn't high on Ed Wade at all early on but others have convinced me to be more in the middle or cautiously optimistic.

    He was initially given the absurd task of trying to remain competitive while focusing on rebuilding when we really should have been in full-blown rebuilding mode a few years ago. Yea, I remember the Ike season... doesn't change my stance. If he had been given the go-ahead to blow it up sooner, we'd be even further along than we are now in the rebuilding process.

    And while it's too early to gauge the results of our recent drafts, he and his team are certainly drafting in volume and getting picks signed. That's a positive.

    Pretty much the entire sabermetric community thinks that Wade is a dinosaur in his field but stats aren't everything. If in fact Wade is more of an old-school Carrol Dawson type than a new age Morey type (using basketball as a comparison) that doesn't necessarily mean that he's incompetent. Experience means a lot and Wade has that over a lot of the younger, saber-oriented types. All that matters are the results over time. If Wade's methods work, great. He played a big role in building Philly's roster but he also made his share of mistakes in trade and free agency, which does seem to be a common theme.

    Regardless, he has the reigns for now and other than a few relatively minor free agency moves, he seems to be doing fairly well given the unreasonable expectations that were thrust upon him from day one. Maybe he doesn't make half of those moves if not for McLane expecting the team to remain competitive.

    We should really be able to start evaluating Wade's tenure with the Astros in another 2 or 3 years, assuming he's still here. Given the state of this organization when he took over and the demands placed upon him, I don't see too much to complain about. No GM is perfect and the most important thing right now is rebuilding our long-neglected farm system. We've drafted and signed players in volume in every year since he took over. They need to keep doing that and everything else should fall into place eventually.
     
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  10. msn

    msn Member

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    Good post (all of it, not just the quoted part).

    "Cautiously optimistic", as opposed to "singing his praises" or some other baser terms involving sacks and hanging that folks like to use around here, is a great way to put it.
     
  11. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    ... not with the final drafts he made.
     
    #31 No Worries, Oct 25, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  12. arkoe

    arkoe (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    Teams in rebuild mode don't go out and spend money on top line pitching.
     
  13. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    For some reason, I really want to see him sign with the Phillies, Giants, or Cardinals just because the sheer ridiculousness that would become their pitching staffs.

    Just imagine rotations of:

    Cliff Lee - Doc Halladay - Roy O - Cole Hamels

    or

    Cliff Lee - Adam Wainwright - Chris Carpenter - Jamie Garcia

    or

    Cliff Lee - Tim Lincecum - Matt Cain - J Sanchez - M. Bumgarner

    I know that St. Louis and San Fran would never pony up that money given their front office leadership, current pitching depth, and plan. Given Phillie's problems are more with the bats and relief pitching, same here.

    However, it would be funny to imagine.
     
  14. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Member

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    Wade ain’t a great GM but you’re unfairly giving the guy a bad rap.

    -Feliz was a bust but Wade did manage to salvage a low prospect out of the Cardinals when Feliz was traded instead of released.
    -If Lyon was signed with the intention of closing for 3 years, it was a value deal.
    -Hampton, Ortiz, and Erstad were all busts but Wade was also responsible for acquiring Valverde (and getting 2 compensation picks for him), Michael Bourn (our only All-Star last year), Wilton Lopez (valuable reliever last year), and other useful players. He’s had good and bad moves.
    -As for Moehler, that was a loyalty/’we got nothing better to do with the money’ move.
    -Sadly enough, Roy wasn’t pitching well before he was traded and had a lot of money left on his contract. As much as I loved Roy, he wasn’t nearly as marketable as Lee who was younger/cheaper/not signed beyond this year/had an excellent recent history of post-season success. Lee merited way more on the market than Oswalt.


    Good for you. Doesn’t change anything. Not every GM can be a Morey.
     
  15. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    no way because Drayton won't pay $$$ and this team is years away from winning and being a contender and that's were Lee will be...
     
  16. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Soriano also made 7+ million in 2010 and is a free agent. What good would it have done for the Astros to trade for an 'unpredictable' relief pitcher who would make that kind of money for one year and then risk losing him to free agency?
     
  17. meh

    meh Member

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    See, for a team like the Astros payroll, our money should be used in the following ways before giving the likes of Lee or Crawford big money. The Astros just don't have an extra $20+ mil to throw around. They learned that the hard way with another Lee.

    Unless you're the Yankees or the Red Sox, the way to get "superstars" is via trade, ala the Rangers and the Phillies this. year Ala us pre-destroyed farm system with Beltran, Johnson, Alou. etc. Home grown players are younger, cost less, and less riskier than free agents. If only the Astros never thought the farm was worthless...
     

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