If it takes Scola to get Bosh, I would do it in a heartbeat. As much as I like Scola, if you ever have an opportunity to improve your team's chances of getting a ring, you pull the trigger.
I agree that the rox need a closer. IMO i feel that is what martin is here for. Amare...NO. Bosh...yes. ALthough impossible for a straight up trade, so it would all come down to who else is involved.
There is no way in hell that Toronto takes back BOTH Battier and Jeffries in a sign-and-trade for Bosh. That would be more "non-asset" salary than they could possibly be expected to take on. More likely, IF Toronto is willing to take back the minimum $13.175M in salary from Houston, you'd see something like a package of Shane Battier ($7.429M), Jordan Hill ($2.669), David Andersen ($2.5M), our recently signed 2010 first rounder (if 13th overall, ~$1.82M), and the Knicks' 2012 pick. It's possible that Budinger is included instead of the 2010 pick (less salary). Also, if the Rockets exercise their option on Chuck Hayes, he might be included in lieu of Andersen. But I can assure you that Battier AND Jeffries will not be included together, unless the Rockets are also taking back Marcus Banks.
I think you are stretching to say there is no way in hell. Battier could have value being flipped to a contender. I know 100% they could reroute him to Portland for a "rebuilding piece" such as Fernandez or maybe Webster. I dont think they touch Andersens multiple year contract, especially with Bargs already there, unless they were going to cut him. Also I think giving Hill + 2 picks is too much, I think thats too much incentive and he could be had for less. Finally I HIGHLY doubt they use Hayes as a fillin for salary, he is a really cheap, really good situational player.
On a related note: http://www.nba.com/raptors/video/2010/03/14/RWEB100313BOSH16x9-1255388/index.html After listening to this interview I don't think there is any doubt he is leaving Toronto this offseason.
I am not sure if i want to trade Scola for Bosh. I seen Bosh game against the Kings the other night....he sucks bad!! He doesn't seem to play with a sense of urgency like you see in Scola. These are the little things you can't teach and it is inherent to winning...it's like the Argentian syndrome. You see it in Scola and Ginobili....they just know when to turn on...and you see them play their best when the game count...BIG GAMES like Playoffs...they have a competitive side to them that despite the fact that they're not the most athletic players in the world...they JUST KNOW HOW TO WIN!! And that comes with a desire that you don't see in other players. I just think sometimes people overlooked that and just want the best most athletic players...but that's not always translate into winning. So with that said, i don't want to give up Scola for Bosh...he's too important for this team...chemistry-wise.
Fine, "no way in hell" is stretching it. I'll give you that. But I completely disagree with you on everything else. First of all, if Battier could net a team Rudy Fernandez, you don't think Morey would have made that move by now? Second, Andersen's "multiple year contract" is only guaranteed for $185k in 2011-12. It is actually a nice ASSET to have in the summer of 2011, since it could help Toronto acquire talent in a salary dump from another team. Plus, the $2.5M he's owed next year isn't exactly going to kill them. Chuck Hayes will BY NO MEANS be a deal killer with regard to getting Chris Bosh. Hill and the two picks are probably what it would take to get Toronto to bite. I'm guessing that Bosh is not going to limit his sign-and-trade choices to Houston or bust. Toronto will have options, most of which will not involve taking back nearly as much salary as Houston's offer will need to include. All the young talent/picks are the EXTRA incentive that will need to be included in order to get Toronto to pull the trigger.
No I dont, because Battier is more valuable to us than a Fernandez. I think Toronto will be hesistant to spend anymore money after the Hedo disaster. Those non guaranteed contracts would be useful to buyers not sellers. If Bosh is gone, Toronto is in full blow rebuild mode. I dont think its a deal killer, but I think Morey fights tooth and nail to keep our "captains" (Scola/Hayes/Battier). Defense is still key to ultimate success. I disagree it takes that much. Help me remember some recent sign and trades and what the haul was.
As much as I like Shane (my favorite player), Morey would trade him in a heartbeat for Rudy Fernandez and filler. Andersen would be included only as salary filler necessary to complete the sign-and-trade deal. The only thing it would cost Toronto (besides his 2010-11 salary) is $185k the following season if they cannot trade him that summer. I'm not saying that Andersen would be an "attractive asset" for Toronto. Just to make the numbers work. You may be right that Morey would push to get Andersen included in a package over Hayes, but if Toronto insists on Hayes, Chuck is a goner. As for recent sign-and-trade history, that's the thing. There has NEVER been a superstar who was signed and traded in exchange for "comparable dead salary". It just doesn't happen. Grant Hill was signed and traded by Detroit to Orlando for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins, both of whom were making jack squat. Shawn Marion was signed and traded in a package to acquire Hedo Turkoglu. Rashard Lewis, Peja Stojakovic and Hedo Turkoglu were each signed and traded by their respective teams in order to acquire a VERY large trade exception for use in future trades. In fact, this is a major motivation for a player's original team in most sign-and-trade deals where the player could just sign outright but wants the bigger money that only a sign-and-trade can bring. I honestly can't think of a single MAJOR sign-and-trade deal where the star free agent's original team agreed to take on a bunch of contracts from an over-the-cap team, even expiring contracts. It just doesn't happen. THAT is why Houston would have to substantially sweeten the pot.
not sure cuz if u can trade AB and some picks and/or fillers that would be great but most likely since whomever we deal for (Bosh) they would need a PF then of course you have to include him if u want that deal to go through but honestly its not like Scola has played this great over the last couple weeks his entire stint here in Houston, it seems a little odd that hes all of a sudden killin it like he is, is this an aberration or the norm? this is a contract year for Scola and I love the guy but Im not sold that he will keep this up and therefore Id trade him cuz at some point he will come back down to earth
Bosh, maybe (less 30%) if he could be included, amare no, no, no. I would like to keep Scola, trade someone else, including Yao, AB etc.
Of all the guys who might be availible, I would take jefferson. Its not that i think jefferson is a much better player or anything, i just think he can actually play center long term if yao doesn't come back and play effectively there. Not to mention, he will probably cost less in terms of trading away players,picks,etc. Bima, i don't think morey would trade for fernanmdez now they have martin.
No thanks on Jefferson (not to continue leebigez's derailment of this thread). Post-injury, he's not THAT much of an upgrade over Scola to justify the $13-15M per season that the Rockets would have to pay him. Frankly, if the choice was Jefferson or nothing, I'd re-sign Scola, continue to develop Hill, and see how those future picks turn out. I think even right now, Morey would trade Shane for Fernandez and (expiring in 2011) filler. The additions of Ariza and Martin have made Shane expendable, especially if another high quality young player could be had in exchange for him. Even with Martin, the Rockets could use an effective wing rotation of Martin, Ariza and Fernandez.
I think Chase can do what fernandez does off the bench. As far as jefferson, i know he has injury issues just like martin and yao, but i see it different. Getting jefferson gives the team flexibility on the frontline. When i say that i mean this. Brooks,Martin,Ariza,Jefferson,Yao. Jefferson's ability to hold down the center period for long periods gives the coach the matchups on the offensive and defensive sides. If yao comes back and can only play 20-25 mins per, then jefferson could slide over and play the 5 effectively and the coach can then matchup whomever at 4. Now I'm taking this someone signed scola outright or a sign and trade was done using him. So when the team plays a team like La and they slide gasol down when they bring in odom, the rockets bring in jeffries. Against other teams, it might be andersen,hill,draft pick or whomever, but it allows the rockets to always have a defensive presence as well as a offensive presence on the floor. Also, the guy is 25 which is another bonus. I'm not saying he's availible even though from what I'm getting he's going to be very availible this summer
With Yao-Scola and seeing Hill's potential...why would you look for an superstar PF? Wouldn't it be better to look for a top notch PG? or top notch SF/SG? You could give away players like Brooks or Ariza, with nice stats and trade value, to get TEAM ORIENTED PLAYERS in return, don't you think? Check the Spurs at their prime....wasn't that the primary requirement for their players, being more worried about team results than about their personal stats? Just ask yourself? Are Amare or Bosh such kind of team oriented players, capable to sacrifize their stats like Manu Ginobili or Tim Duncan did when neccesary?
No they are not.maybe they can be,But they haven't been willing or able to like kg who always was a team player and played BOTH ENDS his entire career.
hell no 2 both because since the trade 4 martin look how scolas been dominating he is playin mvp like
