My point was obvious; you were wrong, and demonstrably so, to point towards the Fallujah incident, which happened ex post as an ex ante justification for the war crimes that were committed. Please note, again, that the opinion that these were in fact, crimes, and abhorrent and disgraceful ones at that, is the official position of the President,the Secretary of Defense, the american public, the international community, and basically everybody else that matters. (Hannity does not matter...) Now please provide some facts to back up your speculation as to which, if any, members of the 372nd Military Police company who "just saw their roomate blown to pieces" or "just saw his roomate ambushed and lit on fire" prior to the occurence of these crimes so as to cause them to strip their prisoners/detainees and to have the prisoners then be sexually abused, and otherwise defiled, and to take photographs cheerfully smiling while doing such. Were those smiles of pain I was looking at?
I have a better idea Mr. "Are these the accused or convicted"...why don't you prove which ones weren't acting in the heat of war or retaliating since you are so concerned with the due process of the prisoners.
No, we only considered saddam and some of his cronies as 'convicted', not the masses in their amry who were forced to fight or be shot.
Well, since you're the one making the contention that this is excusable, which is not being made by anybody within the US government, I would think the burden of proof would be on you to prove/show circumstances tending to support this contenton. You get it? Your theory, your proof. Now, initially, you rested your theory on the Fallujah mutilation as a justification. When I was able to prove, as a factual matter, that this could not possibly be true, you switched tactics, and now speculate as to their motivations, based on hypothetical incidents that you do not know anything about -- and providing no proof thereof. But anyway, I'll do your job for you and show you why your theory of their motivations is doubtful: As has been widely reported in the Taguba report and other places...there is substantial evidence to indicate that these weren't random acts of aggrieved (though smiling and laughing) soldiers, but that this activity was encouraged by the CIA and others, many articles on which are posted here: http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77108 Stop posting about stuff that you know nothing about, it just makes you look dumb when you pontificate elaborate theories based on speculation. With that I'm going to follow my own advice and bid you adieu.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Don't you guys love it when SamFisher tries to prove his conjecture and speculation? It's simply unprovable. I find this amusing.
I love it more when you strut into the D&D wearing nothing more than your bright shiny shill-suit. I find that highly amusing. Keep up the good work, T_J!
I strut everywhere. Don't be tellin me about no struttin. I'm the strut f***ing master. I got my technique down and everything. I don't be slouchin or nothin.
A better answer would have been "I cant prove it"....i will commend you for not using the word "ignorant" in your post....again.
What the people trying to defend these actions are forgetting is that we are talking about policy here. There is a set policy for interrogation of prisoners. The soldiers violated that policy and it seems to be alright with you because they are Iraqi. Again, xenophobic. That coupled with the fact that you think the only mistake is that they documented these violations is outrageous. The uniform code of military justice does not allow for torture of prisoners. Period. End of line. Rumsfeld should apologize, then step down.
What i am saying is that i didn't blink when i saw the pictures....and i won't blink when the ones come out that are apparently even worse. I'm not going to apologize for not being as politically correct as most of you are. You people think that if we "play by the rules" that the Iraqi soldiers will "play by the rules". Newsflash---ain;t gonna happen. Was it any different when the 5 POWs (dont remember names but one was an african american woman from Texas...possibly a cook) were held hostage, sexually abused and flaunted on tv? Or how about the guy who just escaped who was a pow? You think he was getting 3 hots and a cot? Wake up already and stop your tree hugging.
he did.....he might.....and the torture of iraqi soldiers will probably continue...regardless of who the next president is....like i said...wake up!
You are telling me to wake up? That is rich. You draw false correlations based on revenge of US soldiers even though this happened before Fallujah. You call Iraqi prisoners animals. You lump an entire population together as terrorists. Right I'm the one who needs to wake up.
there ya go.....fyi...i never used the word terrorists in this thread...u did You draw false correlations based on revenge of US soldiers even though this happened after Fallujah. riiiiight...because there were no us soldiers ambushed and killed up until then You call Iraqi prisoners animals. well...caged animals actually since they are prisoners
inaccurate. A brick wall at least knows its place and doesn't talk out of its ass about stuff that it doesn't have the faintest clue about and is demonstrably wrong. It's ignorant, but humble and doesn't overstep its bounds.....
the first signs of a lost debate are name calling and aggression....you are forgiven...better luck next time
