Don't feed the trolls. It's too depressing. The guy clearly stated that he thinks all Iraqis are subhuman. Why do you want to hear anymore of his brilliant thoughts? Unless we can transmit his post to Congress to illustrate a larger problem, just let it be.
Yeah, I have a hard time determing whether or not NJRocket is really such a racist/xenophobe/etc or whether or not he is just likes to say inflammatory things for kicks. Either way, it's shocking to say this, but he doesn't offer the pure amusement value -- not that it's a very high bar to meet -- offered by bamaslammer, jorge, or others when they say similarly offensive things, so it's not really worth it to worry about his garbage.
Let's see....Americans who are in Iraq trying to restore the country (contractors) are burnt like onion rings and displayed like ornaments on a tree and we decide that its time we fight fire with fire....and we should apologize? My opinion is that its about time we started treating them like they treat everyone else...including their own.
That is not what I was inferring and you know it. We are an occupying force in another country. If another army came into our country and jailed our citizens and then performed these acts against them I'm betting your reaction would be different. The military has admitted that they round up Iraqis in sweeps, comb through and interrogate them, "weed out" the innocent and then let them go slowly. How would you like it if the police in this country rounded up citizens, interrogated them, humiliated and beat them, sometimes even put them in comas or killed them? You need to remember that it was 40 years ago this summer that police in the South were doing this same thing to Blacks and those trying to help them. Then again, you want to lump all Iraqis as "animals" so why am I trying to reason with the likes of you?
How would you describe the Iraqis (and there seemed to be thousands of them in the news clips i saw) who were celebrating while the burnt bodies of Americans were displayed on a bridge? I'm sorry if the term 'animals' is the first thing that comes to mind.
Here's a thought...we're better than them. That's why we don't, or aren't supposed to treat them like animals.
Uh.. how about as a lawless mob? Yes, these killings were a tragedy, but it doesn't justify what the interrogators did to other Iraqis. For lack of better comparison, you wanna go sweep all of Connecticut because some college kids turned over a bunch of cars after the UConn win, interrogate the lot until we figure out what 1% was responsible? You really need to start looking at the world in terms other than "us" and "evildoers".
He has a point there. No one in the Arab world much cared when that happened. But when we simply humiliate- not kill, maim or otherwise harm- it will lose us the war? Granted, those troops were just stupid to take pictures of it. But if humilating some scumbags who'd eat our intestines for breakfast and praise their savage demon of a god for the right to do so got some information that saved our troops, by all means do it. Nothing wrong with doing anything to get intel out of militant whackoes. And completely unrelated topic, awww, did I offend your little politcally correct, so-close-to- socialism it's silly, sissy sensibilities at some point, Sam? I apologize.....not!!!!! If you're offended, well...boo-hoo-hoo. I've got a whole bunch of towels in my garage you and your other hand-wringers can cry their little eyes out.
You can say that again...but to answer your question, I would imagine the police probably did just that...rounded up the kids and weeded out the ones who they didn;t think committed an offense.
Well you imagine incorrectly. The police did not round them up, they did not put bags over there heads, they did not sodomize them, none of them ended up in comas. They investigated and asked others for information. Oh I forgot to add that the characterization that as one Iraqi does, so must all others believe is ignorant, xenophobic, and racist.
And to get the thread back on track, Rumsfeld should be fired. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Friday extended "my deepest apologies" to Iraqi prisoners abused by U.S. military personnel and told Congress he accepts full responsibility for the shocking events. "These events occurred on my watch. As Secretary of Defense, I am accountable for them. I take full responsibility," Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. If this were a business he would be canned or forced to accept the severance package.
you said you wanna go sweep all of Connecticut because some college kids turned over a bunch of cars after the UConn win, interrogate the lot until we figure out what 1% was responsible? and i answered you. As for the torture you ask about....I would imagine they didn't do any of that stuff.....then again, I don't suppose the students killed and burned anyone either.
So the crime justifies the methods used to ascertain the individuals responsible? At what level of crime do the police get to start the humiliation? How about the sodomy? Can they put a guy in a coma while they are investigating a rape or is that only reserved for murder investigations? Remember, these are the accused, not the convicted. They were obtaining information. Attempting to justify what they did is a losing battle. Even not classifying it as torture is a mistake.
No, actually he doesn't have a point there. Just like you, he has failed to have a grasp on the facts of the situation before arriving at his conclusion. On the contrary he is ignorant of them. NJRocket says: well the torture/abuse of them was justified because they defiled a bunch of dead bodies (leaving aside the fact that the "them/they" is two different groups of people, many of whom are alleged to be innocent or held for no apparent reason). The torture and abuse was noted as a systemic problem in a report commissioned January of 2004, meaning that they occured on or before January of 2004 The mutilation of the bodies in Fallujah happened on April 1, 2004. Do you not see the problem here, or do you requre further explanation as to why the Fallujah incident cannot, in any rational universe, justify the torture and abuse etc, in violation of US & international law, that occurred prior? Bamaslammer, I will say it point blank. You are ignorant. You don't know 10% of what you think you know. I have proven this time and time again by calling you out and busting you on facts, logic, and everything in between. However, you are amusing, yosemite, and I enjoy amusement. So thanks for that.
You are talking in circles but I will try to help you out. You are trying to compare the 'investigation/interrogation' procedures of an American law enforcement official with those of an American soldier in the heat of battle who just saw his roommate hung like a pinata. We are in Iraq trying to win a war because we, the American Armed Forces, have decided that the Iraqi Armed forces are the convicted...not the accused. Capiche?
No Mulder, you have it wrong. The theory being urged is different; NJRocket and BS are arguing that the crime justifies the methods to ascertain the individuals responsible before the crime occurred, before it was known the crime was to occur, and with regard to individuals who didn't commit the crime that had yet to occur and had no other connection with the crime that was not known about other than being Iraqi. A boringly expected position in keeping with what we usually see from them on this board. EDIT: See? This is precisely what I am talking about: Tell me, NJRocket, how did the American soldier just "s[ee] his roomate hung like a pinata" when that event occurred 3 months or more AFTER the torture? Crystal Ball? Miss Cleo? Palantir? I await your response.
It's funny. Many of the people who would call Iraqi's "animals" will also be the first to claim it was worth the loss of our men and women to save them from Saddam Hussain.
how about ...'just saw his roommate blown to pieces' or ' just saw his roommate ambushed and lit on fire'...what is your point? This is happening in the heat of war and if you can't see why we are treating the opposition in this manner, then turn off your tv and stop watching what is going on. This is the ugly part of war. The only thing, IMO, that our soldiers are guilty of is being stupid enough to take pictures of what they did.
