I think criminalizing Johns would be a better system than the one we have now. Down the line, some would call it arbitrary to enforce because richer clients would have the resources to make law enforcement look the other way. Allowing prostitutes to step forward in their victimization without fear of prosecution is a giant step, but it's aim would be mitigate, not eliminate darker criminal aspects of the sex trade.
My understanding is that many police forces have put a greater emphasis on punishing johns already over the prostitutes so enforcement is already moving that direction. Although I believe in the Spitzer case no charges have been filed against Spitzer or the prostitute.
With the law in the books, it wouldn't be easy for a prostitute to report physical or sexual abuse. It's not like there's strong bonds between the prostitute community and the local police.
I just take the pragmatic position, it is going to happen anyway, might as well try to make it as safe as possible. Doesn't mean I approve of it...but it is above my pay scale as to the morality of it. DD
I don't think it's going to happen. You're seeing Amsterdam scale it back because it's creating problems. Because it, as a rule, creates problems.
But, since it is going to happen, which has more problems legalized, or illegal? That is my point, I think legalized has fewer problems. DD
Teenagers are going to drink anyway, let's lower the age limit. Folks are going to speed, let's raise the speed limit. People illegally download music, software, video, etc., lets make that legal.
I honestly don't know. I don't think you avoid the sex slave trade either way, frankly. I think when you create an environment that says, "come here for prostitution" you're going to have legal and illegal prostitution in abundance in that place. i think that fuels the marketplace for those services, frankly. My understanding from stuff I've read is that the best estimates are that 76% of the sex workers in Amsterdam are not registered...I think that indicates it is beyond real regulation. And it certainly fuels other crime.
When your point is that we should legalize something because folks are going to do it anyway, it is apples to apples with other "problems" that are going to occur anyway.
symbolism matters folks. Are we really going to tell the world and our children we condone that sort of behavior? What type of sick society would we be? I think that is what it really comes down to because there really isn't any other good justification except maybe a public health one. even then.
Well we are a society that allows drunkeness, pornagraphy, celebrates violence and practically encourages gambling. As I said earlier I'm not going to make a moral argument and when it comes to morality I agree that prostitution is immoral but we tried outlawing something that many thought was immoral and that caused more problems than it solved. In my opinion the various prohibitions we have now on things like prostitution and mar1juana cause more problems than they solve. Is it a good symbolism for society? Probably not but at the same time I don't think a show like American Idol that idolizes celebrity as a great achievement while at the same time celebrating ridicule is a good sign for our society and I'm not about to say that should be made illegal.
You have to understand that legalized prostitution has FAILED thus far. Amsterdam is trying to get rid of it as much as possible, except in the Red Light District which attracts tourists. They don't want it for their own people, so obviously something is wrong. Yes, you are right in that the current standards are similar to food testing. But that has not eliminated the black market. The cost of making prostitution safe is so high that a black market will emerge. So what are you solving exactly? My arhument remains the same - for prostitution to exist in a safe way, the costs would be too high. Therefore you will sacrifice on testing rather than on cash. The current experiment does not work. Those who have tried, have failed. I like the Sweden system. Makes sense. Put the onus on the buyer and demand should drop sharply.
They are going through great pains to make sure it still stays legal though and as the earlier article stated the problem was a failure of them to enforce their own laws so now they are tightening their own regulations. As far as wanting it for their own people its not like they are denying it to Dutch citizens or preventing them from working in the field they are just redoing their zoning. In a country like Holland where urban planning is frequently used that shouldn't be a surprise nor should it be an indication that somehow they are on the path towards getting rid of legalized prostitution anymore than changing zoning so that car dealerships aren't in residential neighborhoods is getting rid of car dealerships. Its true that regulation of any sort there will still be an impetus to bypass them and have a black market. Consider that even though we have a relatively safe food system thanks to regulation there are still many restaurants that will try to skirt the regulations and as some of the recent food related problems regarding salmonella and ecoli contamination shows that our food system is far from airtight. That said though this is where I think the argument regarding public health becomes rather absurd as we still accept the risk within our food system, air traffic system and practically all of other regulatory regimes. What experiment are you talking about that doesn't work? As the articles that MadMax has cited nothing indicates that Holland is doing away with legal prostitution. Can you cite examples of other places with legal prostitution such as Australia or New Zealand doing away with it since its a failed experiment?
