Should I Vote Yes or No on Rail? Houstonians Please Help

Ask not from whom the hate mongs.

 

I would rather have a not prepared voter than one prepared by completely biased and slanted sources.

Very true. How much of their building costs do interstates take back in user fees? Airports? Ports? To show just because past light rail projects havn't payed for themselves in direct revenue is not much of an argument.

As far as your Houston light rail, I don't know how I would vote. Here are a couple of random thoughts/comments:

Expanding bus lanes? Never been show to drammatically increase ridership. There is just no way you will ever get a high % of Americans to take a bus regularly, this is a cheap anti-public transportion alternative spit out (cop out) that will not majorly impact congestion.

Salt Lake City. Visited it and used the light rail, sure it was a little bit of a federal boondoggle, but it was easy and efficient, I am voting for something similar in my town, Tucson.

Phoenix--passed and will be getting light rail. But like Houston not sure if that is the right way to go. Houston, Dallas and Phoenix are the size of cities with the size a traffic problems to think bigger than light rail. Gene's idea is one (monorail). But getting light rail does not preclude getting bigger, faster, public transit (train, monorail, subway, whatever), maybe it is the right 1st step for a much bigger and advanced (and more expensive) system--which is why it scares the daylights out of the extreme anti-tax folks.

 

Middle school perhaps?

 

Let me guess: bigtexx has sent you some of these e-mails.

In any event, I would love it if you started a "letters" thread as a regular feature. In fact, I insist that you do.

 

Bigtexxx, I find it interesting that you have replied to almost every other comment posted, yet ignored this one.....

The 59 & 610 intersection is not congested during rush hour? How can you make a statement like that, and then attempt to clown someone else for not being on top of this issue before posting?

 

Icehouse you need to be more abreast of the issues in your own backyard if you're gonna "clown" me for not responding to obviously false information. That's why I didn't bother to respond - it was clearly false. The attached link goes to a historical traffic map of Houston's freeways. The time snapshot is 8:45am-9am, so the inbound lanes are going to be more congested than the outbound. You will notice that the 59 Southwest Freeway is the least congested of what I consider the main freeways (I-10 Katy, Gulf Freeway, North Freeway, 290 and 59 Southwest freeway).

http://traffic.tamu.edu/hist/historymap.asp?mapdate=084501

That's how I can make a statement like that.

 

Here's an idea:
The city can give property tax breaks to companies that initiate non-traditional or flex-time scheduling for their employees.
Congestion problems really only occur during the traditional rush hour.

 

It's times like this I'm glad I don't live in Houston...

Trader_Jorge is officially the funniest poster ever! You guys are lucky this is the D&D forum, or I'd be busting out Lyle Landly quotes right and left...Does Houston want to be like Ogdenville?

OGDENVILLE

 

I completely agree.

ANOINTED

 

As a son of NY and a Grand son of San Francisco, I as requested am posting some links for my 2 favorite Mass transit systems. I will after the links highlight why they are good/working, and why a good system is imperative. I will also likely show some of their fults.

San Francisco bay area:
http://www.bart.gov/index.asp

on Friday I cought a ride to the 12th ave bart station in Oakland. walked up to the ticket station (almost exactly like a Bank ATM) put 4 bucks in and walked down to the track level for my line. I was with my brother. he was going to concord North I was going to Orinda. train came. it was well marked and announced. we hop on and in just a few minutes i was at my stop. I got off in Orinda and walked through the turnstyles swiping my 4 dollar card. it recorded the transaction and i have like a buck and change left. the station is surrounded my mid rise office buildings. actually only a couple. In stations like Concord, walnut creek lafayette etc. they are basicly office parks. office parks that are full and more buildings being built. they pay tons of taxes to their cities and counties and those counties help pay for BART.

NYC the king of mass transit (and everything else)
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/
The concept of NY today exists only because of the subway system. back before 1900 when the system was announced, midtown was little more than isolated villages swamps and neighborhoods. the announcment caused unprecedented building in midtown along with the development of a town called harlem at the northern tip of manhattan. all the way along the planned rought buildings went up. the times corp and met life relocated and mid town was born. urbanizationas well as elevator technology helped greatly as well as steel framed construction. but in the end we have an island covered by tall buildings filled with people living and working. but what we dont have is wide roads. we have an intricate web of subway lines, we have busses we have ferries, we have tunnels and bridges.
NYC has a massive tax base. I may not be enough, but it would not exist at all without the subway.

what are the problems. NYC lacks proper integration between the old subway lines and the new cancer of urban environments. the suburbs. PATH, LIRR and Metro North all have different tracks and do not mesh with the NYC subway. also NYC has not added any lines or expanded any way since i think 1956!! there is a proposed extension with the Olympic bid for 2012, bu nothing else. also there has never been a subway link to any of the airports.
http://www.kennedyairport.com/airtrain/projectframe.htm
AirTrain should help this, but it is again another system.

If NY could... and HAHAHA it will never happen... retrofit all its lines so one train could opperate on PATH LIRR MetroNorth, Airtrain, and the Subway, mass transit would be greatly improved.
I would also like to see the subway expanded in long island. long Island has become much more densly populated since the 50s. and Long Island has some sever traffic issues. LI may have simular office parks develope just like if SF.

when Air train is complete this is an easy travel solution for the average trip to grandmas house.

I drive my car to the ferry about 2 miles from my house. leave the car and board the boat as a passanger. hop on the LIRR train from Greenport wich is 200 ft from the ferry. take the train into Jamaica station in queens. at the station I check my bags on Air train and they meet me on my plane. no check in at the airport is necessary. I am already security cleared and all at the train station. I hop on my flight land at Oakland airport or SFO take the BART to concord station and the grandparents pick me up. The hotel is near by and have a rental car office inside.

a total of about 200 miles traveled outside of the plane and only 2 miles of it is by car. maybe $20-30 in total train costs.

LA was very late in getting on board and look at all of their problems. Dallas is ahead of Houston and they are not in a good place. If houston does not dive headfirst into Mass transit I pity your souls
Build, and Build a proper subway.

 

Could have done any of that with a bus lane, for billions less to the city.

 

i really, really, really wish we were talking about rail on some elevated structure out to the suburbs.

 

Uh, as someone who lives in the Bay Area and actually knows something about it, you are absolutely wrong.

1. The trips he mentioned would have taken at least four times as long on a bus.

2. BART (in SF) has a number of underground stations in places that an "extra bus lane" would be completely impossible.

 

Without even mentioning how these cities differ greatly from Houston from a population density perspective, how can any analysis of public transportation be complete without a corresponding analysis of tax rates in those cities. Ok, Houstonians, raise your hand if you want to be taxed at NYC levels. I don't see too many hands.

 

Is it possible to build a subway in Houston? The Texas Gulf Coast can't even have basements...

 

I mean dedicated bus lanes or those using HOV lanes on freeways. Our light rail will be running right alongside cars on the roads. It won't be any quicker than a car, except for stop light overriding priveledges.

I am quite familiar with the BART system in SF, as I have spent a fair amount of time in that city. Houston's congestion issues are due to commuters coming from the suburbs. These are highway problems, not some downtown gridlock where a bus lane isn't feasible. A dedicated bus lane will do exactly what a train would do for Houston's congestion problems, but for billions less.

 

Rail, Schmail. It's the 21st Century and we're still talking about 19th Century technology. Where's my damn flying car?

 

Do highways make money?

 

wait...we basically have those in the form of HOV lanes. it ain't working.

 

So spending BILLIONS of dollars on light rail whch won't even reach the suburbs will? Light rail which will take a teeny tiny percentage of cars off the roads will? Light rail running alongside cars and buses is not the best use of billions of dollars.

I am not against rail altogether - just this plan. I actually am in favor of Judge Eckles' proposal that just came out today - heavy rail out to the suburbs which costs $5 million per mile, instead of $80 million/mile of light rail. Plus the heavy rail has a dedicated right of way and moves at faster speeds than light rail.