Should English be decalred official language by law

I could be wrong here... but I'm of the understanding that making English the official language would not mean that you HAD to speak English. It just means that all state business would be conducted and printed in English.

No one is going to arrest you for speaking another language or not knowing the "official" one. The whole idea of making English the official language by law is mostly symbolic and partly to simplify state business.

BTW, did you really mean it when you said that all schools should support all languages regardless of how obscure they are? Or were you being sarcastic?

 

I meant it, but there might be some confusion over what I mean by that. I mean that parents should receive progress reports and report cards in whatever language they want. Students who have another language spoken in their home automatically have two tests administered to test their proficiency in ENglish and in their native language. So testing their literacy rate in the their native tongue needs to happen.

Parents have rights concerning their children as students from testing information, to lunch programs etc. The parents need to understand that information or they are basically being denied their rights.

I don't think that students should have textbooks in anything other than English, or any of that other stuff, but permission slips, initial fluency and literacy tests, as well report cards, and information which make a parent better able to help their child get the education they need should happen in a language they can understand, no matter what that language is.

In LAUSD there was someone who's parents were from an eskimo tribe and they had to receive information in their native language. It might be a pain, but it is rare and it is worth it for the child's education.

It is the printing of documents only in English that makes me against making it the official language. People need voting information, and their child's school information in the language that best allows them to make informed decisions.

 

It would be more efficient? Well that is good to hear! Please let me know how the "printing costs" are counterbalanced against whatever increased costs are incurred due to language related misunderstandings to prove this!

THX Stereo system in advance!

 

You couldn't be more right on the point.

 

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.

 

English is the language of the US for the moment. As someone living in Texas you should be aware that it won't be that long now before native English speakers will be the minority their. At that point the US will become a plurality of languages where a language besides English will be the lingua fraca of some of the most populous states.

 

"Native English speakers?" Isn't that what Latino Texans are... those who have been here for generations, in many cases? I went to high school with several Hispanic Texans who didn't speak Spanish. Not fluently. Their parents and/or their grandparents may have, but they did not. It might interest you to know that "Anglo-Texans" (whatever the PC term is for the people like me stumbling around) now make up the largest minority in Texas. I think that happened during this past year, according to census estimates. What does that mean for the future?

Look, my kids are learning Spanish in school. Everyone in Texas should be able to speak Spanish as a second language. Not to accommodate millions of illegal immigrants, but because it simply makes sense. The large country to our south, and the host of countries south of it, speak Spanish, with a few exceptions, most notably Brazil. (man, I'd love to go there someday!)

English will remain our language, but we should, and will, imo, become bilingual, or multilingual. I don't see this country becoming an extension of Mexico. People will adapt to this country, as they always have, and the country will grow and change, as it always has, becoming that much more intriguing because of our differences among ourselves... our American gumbo. What does the future hold? Didn't you ever watch Star Trek? Don't you realize that the whole Galaxy will one day speak English??



Keep D&D Civil.

 

They speak english in what?

 

True there are many Hispanic-Americans who don't speak Spanish or Spanish isn't there first language but there are many who do and their numbers are increasing.

Who said anything about accomodating illegal immigrants. Even not factoring in illegal immigrants there are more and more Spanish speakers coming in through legal immigration along with more and more children born into families here in the US where Spanish is the primary language spoken. Its a good thing you're kids are learning Spanish and you're recognition of that bolsters my argument that we should be accomodating Spanish because Spanish speakers will likely be the majority in many states very soon.

How does accomodating Spanish speakers make our country an extension of Mexico. They speak Spanish in Panama yet that doesn't make Mexico an extension of Panama. No offense Deckard but I'm reading a certain nativist subtext in your comments when you bring up things like "accomodating illegal immigrants" and "becoming an extension of Mexico." THis is about understanding that for practical purposes this nation is becoming a country with a plurality of languages. Spanish in Texas and and other states will become the dominant language while in other places like Cupertino and Monterey Park in Mandarin will become the dominant language. If we want Spanish, Mandarin and etc.. speakers to become fully contributing citizens it makes sense to accomodate the dominant language of that region.

This doesn't mean that I think that immigrants shouldn't learn English for their own good but from a governmental standpoint that the government, particularly local governments, should accomodate the languages spoken by large sectors of the populations.

But you forget that they had Universal translators. There was one Voyager episode where they found a Japanese guy from the 20th C. and he was wondering why everyone was speaking Japanese. Anyway if you're talking sci-fi you should look at your namesake because in Blade Runner the common tongue was a Spanish / Cantonese patois.

 

LOL! What's a nativist? Some code for something else? An activist for nativity scenes? Very controversial, you know.

Look, I completely disagree about Spanish becoming the dominant language in "regions" of the United States, assuming you mean areas like Texas and other states with growing Latino populations. For some reason, you seem to think that ethnicity determines the language used. I find that a bit ludicrous. We have had waves of immigrants in their millions, who had communities, often poor, where their language was spoken on the streets and in their homes, but they still learned English. Look for the Little Italy sections of older major cities, like Boston and San Francisco. They are known more for Italian restaurants then as a place filled with Italian-Americans running around speaking Italian on the streets and in their homes. Ethnicity and language are not tied together in this country. After a couple of generations, the language of the "old country" becomes the language used most by grandparents and old uncles and aunts, in my opinion. The immigrants become English speaking and begin to become assimilated as Americans. That is not some hard and fast rule but, in general, that's what has happened in the past.

As for Blade Runner? You must remember that it is portraying a nightmare Earth of the future, depopulated and horribly polluted. That's hardly something to aspire to. It is the best science fiction film ever made, but I'll argue that in another thread. And I remembered the Universal Translator from Star Trek. Next time I'll type, "This Is A Joke!" to insure that everyone "gets it."



Keep D&D Civil.

 

The American Heritage Dictionary defines nativism as "A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants." or " The reestablishment or perpetuation of native cultural traits, especially in opposition to acculturation"

I'll let you decide whether you do or don't fit under that definition.

 

Nope, that wouldn't fit me. I love Italian food.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

Speaking english might be the bulwark against the kind of balkanization that might otherwise happen with a society split by language, be in Spanish or otherwise. That's preferable IMO.

 

Or it could be the cause of a nativist and overly-homogenized government like France and Germany that demand you speak french or german, or you get a ghettoized life in isolated neighborhoods that generally breed radical dissent. Since making english the official language would kill off binlingual education programs, some kids simply won't go to school. I think teaching English is important while being flexible about it.

When I go to India now and then, I see a nation of 13 official languages and thousands of dialects. Yet because they are flexible about language, they've built a strong education system where if you come out of it, you'll be speaking multiple languages. (Generally at least 3) And furthermore, all classes are actually taught in English. Yet because they start teaching foreign languages the moment you start elementary school, you get a solid foundation. Europe has done the same thing. American language literacy is downright horrid but the answer isn't to say everyone should speak english but rather to promote better language classes at the basic primary and secondary levels so that we have more language literacy.

 

“A foreign language is a weapon in the struggle of life.”

- Karl Marx

 

Why is this mutally exclusive of requiring that English be the main language? Your examples proves the feasibility of requiring English. No one says our children shouldn't learn other languages.

And no offense but India isn't the most stable or integrated place on the planet.

 

Geeimsobored's definition hit the nail on the head and I think you're argument for not accomodating speakers of other languages by lumping it in with illegal immigration is an example of nativism.

Can you deny though that Spanish isn't being more and more widely spoken throughout Texas and other Southern States?

Who said anything about poor. In Cupertino if the only language you speak is Mandarin you can still get along pretty well. Last time I was there I had to help translate for friends who didn't know Mandarin at some restaurants. This is Cupertino, the home of Apple Computer not some ethnic ghetto.

While its true that Italian isn't the common language spoken in the Italian North End Italian immigration wasn't as large as the current immigration of Spanish speakers and also stopped after a relatively short period and Italy isn't next door to Boston or SF where there are very close cross border ties.

To your point that ethnicity and language aren't tied to country you're right and in the case of Spanish its spoken by many ethnicities and many countries. Like your kids learning Spanish now I predict that more than likely there will be more Anglo and other non-Hispanic Americans learning Spanish to better communicate with Spanish speaking majorities. In terms of not having local governments accomodating Spanish in a place like Houston in a decade or two I would be worried about making sure English is accomodated.

It was in the spirit of the joke that I had to point out the Universal Translator. You should've gone with Stargate SG-1 where it seems like every alien species masquerading as ancient dieties speak not only English but perfectly modern English with American accents.



Keep D&D Civil.[/QUOTE]

 

Dude, ESL is what helped me learn English, why the hell would some one want it to go away? English as a Second Language, do you even know what the program entails? Though I must say that most of ESL programs I was in really only have a Spanish speakers focus, so why it was helpful in doing some of the things like bringing me along in my own pace, it also did force me to try and learn English (as well as the idea getting a B in English is a no no even for a foreign born Chinese kid ).

 

Yeah, Deckard. Teach you to make fun of ME for breaking out the dictionary.

I don't think his position is against acculturation. Neither does that mean however that you should be subsumed by a new culture. Some of the things that contribute to our stability and prosperity in contrast to other countries are the subservience of the local to the national, and the commonality of language. No one is proposing Spanish should be banned. But requiring Spanish speaking immigrants to learn english is not nativist, but a rational step to encourage assimilation on a basic level into the country. All the other waves of immigration have brought their own additions to the overall American culture without subsuming it. That is a good thing.

 

Because making English our main language would kill bilingual education programs since making English our national language would force schools to only teach in English. My argument about integration of languages into education is a response to your balkanization claims. Greater language education would serve as a stopgap to balkanization. The alternative is radical Western European language and cultural requirements that have served to create pockets of non-natives that are living in ghettoized conditions. Sishir Chang's argument about nativism can be directly attributed to some of these western european countries and their policies on language and culture.

As for India, it has problems but one thing it has going for it is that if it adopted a ridiculous national language policy like your advocate, it wouldve fragmented into pieces because groups would oppose being forced to speak one and only one language. Instead they've moderated by mandating mandatory language education, allowing students to learn their native language, english and a third language (some places even 4 languages) Thus fully educated people there are multi-lingual and much more culturally competent.

Everyone agrees that it would be nice if Spanish speakers learned English. That's something no one is questioning. However, it's a question of how you achieve that goal. Making English the national language functions symbolically as nativist. Especially considering the fact that we pride ourselves on tolerance. Also, as a practical matter, your requirement kills ESL and billingual education programs which as pointed out above are fairly decent ways at promoting English education. Systems are in place to teach english now, but making English the national language does nothing but antagonize "non-natives" as well as make a transition to American life that much harder for immigrants.

Also something to point out is that the cultural integration you speak of has happened all these years without making English our national language.