I couldn't masturbate while smoking at the same time. I burnt myself.....er, I mean I would burn myself pretty badly. My take: Businesses are privately-owned. The owners should be allowed to make their choice. Noone is forcing the non-smoker from patronizing said bar. I think there should be non-smoking bars, but I doubt they'd make it. Now, if the city were to implement a policy, then a nonsmoking bar can be profitable. Jeff, would nonsmoking clubs, well selected nonsmoking clubs (at the owner's discretion) be fair and reasonable.
If they want. But, I won't be a patron of that bar and if it bothers other people I'm sure they wouldn't either.
Just as long as you don't use the same hand for both of them... I, personally, would love it if bars were smoke-free. But I don't see it happening anytime soon, because of the great number of people who like to smoke. It would be nice if they at least had a separate area where non-smokers could hang out. Also, in warm places like Texas, seems like they could go outside... but the bar culture is going to be hard to change. Since I don't really drink, the only reason I would go to a bar is to hang out with people who are already going there. Of course, between that and the smoking, I don't end up in bars too often... the main regret I have is that those of us who are severely allergic to smoke will have to suffer any time we want to hear live music in a club.
Mucky Duck is about the only place I go to now for live music....and then just for the early show on Saturday night that is smoke free. I deplore the smell of cig smoke, and it's the reason why I don't go out to bars anymore. Maybe that's a good thing. If it came down to a vote in Houston, it would be worth it for me to go and vote for it (a smoking ban), but it's not a big enough deal to me to go out and campaign for. I really miss the live music, but other than that......life goes on. Batman....I had a sensitive moment last week in NYC. I was in China Town, and when I saw all the roasted chickens hanging in the window, I thought to myself: man.....I bet vegetarians (at least the "nothing with a face" ones) must find that really offensive. What are you guys doing to me?
I think it's clear I'm a smoker who doesn't want to see a smoking ban in bars. But I'm not opposed to most of what Jeff pitches. I don't want anyone who doesn't like smoke to be bothered. I'm all for better ventilation or even smoking/non-smoking areas. I started smoking at the exact wrong time. When I started you could smoke on planes, in elevators, at the Summit, the Astrodome and the Galleria. It's only natural I'd feel the thing's getting out of control. I'm sympathetic to issues of allergies, discomfort and the real health issues of second hand smoke, but please do not take away my bars. dagimp: If that fella that bought the mayor's chair gets his way, you'll be hitting on all the drunk chicks you want soon. If not, there's always Nosmo King.
Sorry, Cohen. The only thing that negatively impacts you as a non-smoker is YOUR decision to frequent someplace that allows smoking...making the huge assumption that second hand smoke is harmful to your health of course.
A-Train, I haven't lived in NY since 91. I can usually find Kools for under $3. Pole: Dead bodies hanging in storefronts used to make me sad and sometimes angry. Not anymore. Now it's just surreal. I mostly just think, how gross and why do people want to chew up that carcass and swallow it? But I'm not a crusader on the issue anymore. Can't say I'm not glad some of us are putting a dent in your denial though...
Cars and planes provide transportation. Bug sprays provide pest control. BBQ pits provide entertainment and a method of cooking. Smoking can provide enjoyment to certain members of the public. All of the above, save bug spray, could be eliminated from society and we'd find a way to survive.
Agreed on all but the barbeque pits. Meat eating's a choice you make because it pleases you to eat it. Same goes for my smokes. Even so, I don't want to blow it on you if you don't want to breathe it. If bars kept a smoking section, I'd be almighty fine with them keeping a non-smoking one too.
Now THAT is a topic that deserves it's own thread... Cars and planes could be eliminated? Sorry, but I can't agree with that statement. Cars and planes, despite the deaths associated and the pollution they cause, are a necessity in today's world. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that smoking is a necessity. If you think the world is crowded now, imagine how many people there would be if nobody died from the effects of cigarette smoking...
We've lived without cars and planes. It would be a rough adjustment, and we would live in a much smaller circle, but it can be done. Our ancestors proved it. I by no means am implying that they should be eliminated. I enjoy the convenience of them.
Smoking is not without purpose. First, it makes you look cool (or Kool if you like menthols). Second, it drives away annoying ninnies (nice word Haven). Third, it is a great stress reliever and probably prevents even more postmen from going ballastic every year. Fourth, it serves as much purpose as anything you listed in your ridiculous post: SUVs are completely unnecessary. Lets ban 'em. In fact, most people could bike to work, so lets only have mass transport and bikes; Bug spray's purpose is to what? Poison us? I believe people survived without modern pesticides just fine; Barbeque pits are for comfort and entertainment, which is hardly a necessity. Fifth, smoking makes you look cool. Unless you are like piipendagimp and are allergic to smoke, then no, it is no more bad for you than peanut butter, or barbeque smoke, or a million other 'carcinogens.' In fact, you are more likely to get cancer from air pollution as a result of automobiles than to get cancer from second hand smoke you breathe in bars.
LOL. Looking cool was probably the main reason people started smoking. I mean, I was cool before I smoked, but when I smoke, I am Richard F@#$%%& Grieco. Yeah, baby.
When I was single, I found it statisically probable that chicks who smoked were an easier lay. Is that a purpose?
I lived in NY for five years, saw a hell of a lot of SUVs, and never enough snow to justify them. Besides, since SUVs are a relatively new phenomenon, I don't think it your statement is true. I do agree with Jeff that more ventilation would be great. However, as I have continuously advocated in these discussions, if you do not want to be in a smoking environment, you should direct your activism to the business community. There is no reason more non-smoking places would not open if the market demanded it, and there was money to be made off of it. So far, nonsmoking facists prefer to pass bans that inhibit SOME of us from making a choice that should be ours alone. "Is it true that you smoke eight to ten cigars a day?" "That's true." "Is it true that you drink five martinis a day?" "That's true." "Is it true that you still surround yourself with beautiful young women?" "That's true." "What does your doctor say about all of this?" "My doctor is dead." - George Burns Cigarette smoking is a major cause of statistics - Fletcher Knebel
