If they want me to respect their right to let whoever the hell they want in their club, then they should respect my right to tell them that their sexist assholes. Oski, great post. BTW, of course most males wouldn't bat an eye because males generally haven't had to deal with discrimination (white, at least). I mean, when we have a history of not being able to vote, not making as much as women, etc., then maybe we'd start to bat an eye at things like this.
Some people don't like being told no...and once they are they complain...publicly...the more cameras the better...and what a coincidence that it just so happens to be the club they play The Masters at.
And they have a right to send you packing as well. I can't fathom why anybody (male, female or otherwise) would want to be part of a club that clearly didn't want them. There are clubs out there which exclude Catholics...but you don't see me picketing to get in.
Great post Isabel. Refman...you hit the nail on the head...like I said before, if the NOW wants to make a beef with a sexist club, let them go picket at lesser known clubs that don't even let women in the front door. (i.e. Lochinvar-Houston, Tx, Adios- Delray ,Fl, Garden City Mens Club- L.I, NY etc)
I believe Augusta has the right to exclude anyone they want....even if it was based on something as incendiary as race. They are, after all, a private organization. Hosting the Masters though, gives them an inordinate amount of visibility (which kind of flies in the face of the whole "private organization" concept), so I also believe they deserve all of the hell they are catching right now.
Given this and a few other posts...all I can see is this: If you don't allow women on the premises, period...then it's ok to exclude women. But if you allow them to play at all...you must admit them as members or else. What a strange position to take.
Private organizations cannot discriminate on an illegal basis. Race would be an illegal basis if Augusta buys anything from out of state. This would allow them to be regulated under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution. No it doesn't. Hosting a golf tournament does not give Augusta National a public character at all. Your assumption is factually incorrect.
Is that true? I never knew that. when you say "buys anythign from out of state"...what does that include?
I find it funny that everyone is screaming and yelling defending Augusta's right to exclude women based on right to free assembly. On the other hand, these same people are screaming and yelling about how horrible NOW and other women's groups are for using their own right of free speech and assembly. Private organizations cannot discriminate on an illegal basis. Race would be an illegal basis if Augusta buys anything from out of state. This would allow them to be regulated under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution. You do realize that the law is irrelevent here, right? NOW isn't suing them on the basis of discrimination. They are appealing to Augusta and its members on a moral basis. You (not you, Refman, but everyone who keeps mentioning this) can keep talking about how they have the legal right to do whatever as long as you want, but its really irrelevent to both sides here because no one has challenged that.
Some of the responses in this thread are downright laughable, but NJ's takes the cake. Your criticism of them protesting Augusta while ignoring other clubs is absurd. That's akin to criticizing anti-death penalty advocates for protesting in front of the Capitol when they're not in front of Refman's house, since he's pro-death penalty. Ridiculous. As is the assumption that people who disagree with you do it just for publicity not for their beliefs.
Exactly. Really makes me wonder about the people who are using the law as an excuse for these sexist assholes.
Actually, your response is the laughable one. The fact that the NOW is SOLELY protesting against Augusta, takes all the steam out of their sails since there are other private golf clubs that CLEARLY go against the beliefs of the NOW moreso than Augusta does. My point in criticizing the NOW for picketing Augusta over other clubs that don't allow women is to show that the NOW is only looking for exposure and they could obviously care less about the cause...otherwise, they would be at least mentioning the other clubs that exclude women outright.
In the 60s or so there was a restaurant that was held to fall under federal regulation under the commerce clause because they purchased their ketchup packets from out of state.
I have a couple of questions for you RM... 1) Do you belong to any private organization of any sort? 2) Do you consider the girl scouts or the Cub scouts sexist assholes? Why or Why not?
I'm not willing to go that far. I think it's an interesting choice on their part but I'm not going to slander their motives. Bad example. People protesting the death penalty protest it GENERALLY at every turn. They don't just picket the execution of John Doe. In contrast, NOW is protesting AUGUSTA NATIONAL. They are not protesting the general discrimination against women in golf clubs. The clubs which don't EVER allow women through the door aren't mentioned. So if Augusta allows women in, NOW will ballyhoo what a great victory it is...while women will not even be allowed in the door at Locinvar, etc. Strange victory it would be, eh?
You got beat by Hawaii. Loser. I'm actually in a great mood. My girlfriend and soon to be fiance got sworn in by the Supreme Court of Texas to be a practicing attorney. Meanwhile, you can only attract ugly liberal girls. CASE CLOSED MR. SINGLE FOR LIFE.
As with just about everything posted in this thread, my "assumption" is subjective......which should have been readily apparant. I've changed my signature just for you...in the hopes that we can avoid something like this in the future. I BELIEVE that Augusta National's hosting of a major golf tournament that is viewed by millions on public television thrusts them into the national spotlight. Although I feel that as a "private organization" legal entity, they have the right to exclude ANYONE they want, I also BELIEVE that because they host a major, they have opened themselves up to considerable ridicule............which they are getting. I do envy your kind though. The world would be so much easier for me if I saw everything in absolutes.
