Should Amare and Diaw be banned for leaving the bench?

Dude, comparing this to slavery? You should really check your priorities in life.

Let me put it another way. If a player makes a basket with his feet on the three-point line, should they go ahead and give him the extra point? Afterall, he surely meant the shot to be a three!

 

Yeah, I agree.

I shouldn't have included 'fouls' in my case. Really I'm talking about the more external issues: player image, players getting into legal trouble, etc. You can't seriously think the NBA is at the same level w/ the NFL and MLB. I think circumstances like 'brawls' and altercations are a serious matter for the NBA and Stern has stated he will always maintain a hard line for serious issues.

I've stated what I wanted to state here already. I just can't believe how quick everyone totally absovles the players when they are very aware what the implications of their actions are. Maybe we should rename the NBA to National Basketall Anarchy.

 

Why do they call less ticky tack fouls in the playoffs?

 

If he wants to take a hard line on brawls, then punish the hell out of Horry... suspend him for 20 games.

We're talking more about a player stepping two feet onto a court (that's only clearly visible thanks to the increased cameras and media coverage in this day and age), than a supposed veteran delivering an absolute cheap shot to the opposing team's best player because he's pissed off about the outcome of the game.

That was thuggish... the NBA should find a way to clean that up.

 

I'm not absolving either amare or diaw for forgetting the rule and acting on natural instinct. But while I think both had stupid brain farts, stern has a bigger issue to weigh here and that's do I follow the rule and slant the most important game of this series very heavily, or do I realize they never got involved in the on court stuff and maintain some modicum of competitive balance.

 

So am I the only one who thinks it wasn't that bad of a foul?

 

That's not the same thing. See Nick's posts, he's explaining it much more eloquently and articulately than I am but I share his view on the matter.

I'm not comparing a basketball game to slavery, but in any league when there's a rule that sounds good upon conception but then you figure out it's a ridiculous rule, you change the rule. That's the most fair thing to do and best for the league longterm.

I mean what if (and I am doing this for argumentative purposes) Nash had been seriously injured on the play. Let's just say hypothetically that his leg breaks and he's reething in pain.

Suppose then that all 12 Suns leave the bench to check on their fallen teammate. They don't go towards the player who decked Nash, but to check on their teammate. In the process they step very slightly onto the court. They never approach the attacking player or even talk to him, but just check on their teammate.

Do you suspend the entire team because protecting the "letter of the law" is priority #1,2,3,4,5,...etc.

Where does it stop?

How many NBA games do you watch where the level of contact within the last 2 minutes is greater than in the first 46 minutes? The unwritten rule is that you let players decide the game and swallow the whistles moreso than usual in these situations.

However, by the letter of the law, using your philosophy, you should call the game the EXACT same way in the last 2 minutes of the game because there is no clear, unambiguous rule stating that these moments are to be regulated any differently. Does that make for a better or worse product though? The refs use common sense here.

I almost wish that both Stoud/Diaw are suspended and Horry is NOT so the public focus shifts from "did they leave the bench by one inch" to "maybe this rule is pretty ridiculous". Maybe something that insiduous has to happen so we can change a horrible rule.

 

There are plenty of spur fan that will agree with you.

 

Amare and Diaw will definitely suspended if video proves them step on the court. NBA has no tolerance on this rule. It's unfortunate but that's life.

Anybody who remembers that PJ Brown bodyslammed Charlie Ward in 1997 playoff knows there wont be any exception. The League is very clear on this rule and its purpose.

 

If you actually went by the letter of the law, it's conceivable that Horry is NOT suspended for Game 5 and Amare/Boris are.

JRich was not suspended or fined by the NBA for his flagrant 2 foul on Okur last night, probably a harder foul than what Horry dished out. Flagrant 2's are not auto suspensions.

I almost hope something like this happens so this joke of a rule can be exposed for the trash that really is.

 

yes, as sad as that sounds, rules are rules.
but horry is def gonna get suspended if stoudamire got suspended.

 

Rules are ****ing rules. Yeah it's ridiculous but it's there so that you dont have entire benches clearing for a potential all out brawl. It's hard enough for the refs to sort the mess out, and PLAYERS leaving the bench aren't helping the matters. Horry being suspended is a given. He was wrong. Maybe give him 2 whilst giving amare 1; sounds "fair". Just because horry did something bad, it doesn't mean retaliation is "alright". ANd I'm using retaliation loosely because i know amare/diaw did nothing than rush onto the court from the bench.
But he did run TOWARDS the altercation where in the rulebook theres rules to prevent exactly said occurances.

Maybe AFTER the season they can change it to a fine only offense to leave the bench.

 

Rules are rules. As much as I would hate it, I think the rule should be enforced against the Suns.

Having said that, if the Suns players do get the suspension, I will probably stop watching the playoffs. I fully expected the winner of this series to go on and win the championship. And if the best team didn't make it out of the series due to some ill-conceived rule then the rest is not worth watching.

Yes, I am conflicted. I want the rule enforced but I really hate the rule.

 

Nope.
I'm in the same boat. Wasn't that bad at all to me either (certainly flagrant, but not worth fighting about - and certainly not as bad as a knee to the package). I thought Nash might have done a little acting to make it look a lot worse.

These many years of watching Stern's brand of roundball has taught me to be cynical about talk of fouls, flopping, dirty players: it's all politics, mind games, and swaying the officials. Because the league is so sensitive about its marketing image, politics is sadly as much a part of the pro game as talent and X's & O's.

 

However, Horry added an elbow to Raja Bell's face. If there was any doubt, that probably took him out of Game 5.

People keep saying rules are rules, but the NBA and Mr. Stern seem to make changes as they please. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

 

I remember the Knicks and Heat meeting in the playoffs back in the Van Gundy vs. Riley days (maybe even the series where Van Gundy took a ride on Alonzo's foot). There was a scuffle towards the end of the game, and a half-dozen or so players (including a couple of big names) left the bench and got suspended. This was for games 4 and 5 of a 5 game series or 6 and 7 of a 7 game series. They were big, pivotal games. Because at that time only three players could be suspended for a game, the league staggered the suspensions: The first three alphabetically the first game, and then the rest the last game. If anybody remembers which team got the hammer and who all was suspended, please let me know. I do remember Stern laying down the smack and saying he didn't care when these take place (regular season, playoffs, game 7, etc.), the punishment is the same.

The league has to suspend Amare and Diaw even though they didn't make it that far onto the court, it's a critical game, and it's benefitting the Spurs, who started the scuffle. They left the bench, and that is a big No-No in SternWorld. Stern has been hard-core about enforcing that rule the past 10 years, and it would be completely out of character for him to change his tune now.

Horry will get at least a 1 game suspension for the Flagrant 2. I'm just waiting to see if the league will tack on another game or two.

 

One thing that might save Amare is the fact that he was actually already at the scorers table when it happened and hew as getting ready to check in so that's why he was so close to the play. That might give him a little argument that he had already left the bench to begin with and was already in the area.

That's the comments that the announcers on TV made and I can see their point. I didn't catch anything with Diaw so he might get some backlash.

 

The league should heavily fine the players involved and dole out suspensions in subsequent games. It's ludicrous suspend players during playoffs without malice as the cause.

Horry's shot was cheap, but it doesn't warrant a suspension. The threat of suspension should keep everyone on their toes from now on.

 

Are you seriously buying into the bullcrap the Suns said? Even D'Antoni thinks it's a joke in the postgame interview. There are pictures and videos that proves otherwise. Good luck for Amare & Diaw for playing Gm 5.

Do you hear Charles Barkley got suspended by taking 2 steps off bench on the court? He told the League the same excuse as Amare. I even recall some players just stepping on the sideline and got suspended. As Shaq said, "You're not allowed to bring toothpaste in the plane anymore. Life is not fair.".

 

Looking at the SportsCenter replay: If Amare WAS trying to get involved in the scuffle, he sure was taking his sweet time. He didn't show any signs of urgency until a coach stepped in front him. That's when he shuffled his feet quickly and jumped back a bit. It really did look like he was just headed to the scorer's table. You'd think if he was going after Horry he would have bolted over there instead of taking a leisurely stroll.

Diaw wasn't mentioned and wasn't seen in the video. I saw it live but at the time I wasn't thinking about potential suspensions and consequetly waited 'til I saw SC to form an opinion. But from the one angle they showed of Amare leaving the bench, it seemed to back up his claim of going to the scorers table to check in.