Should Amare and Diaw be banned for leaving the bench?

Nick is absolutely right.

Crap like this is absolutely part of the reason why the NBA has gone from #1 to #3.

Stern has allowed the game to really deteriorate. He made a solid move with the minimum age requirement, but all in all his management of the game has been putrid.

This suspension is a perfect example. He's willing to deny the NBA fans an opportunity to watch a great series with 2 great teams at full strength just to protect his beloved rule which anyone can see has been completely ineffective.

If Stern's rules had worked, would you see Carmelo punching someone? Would you see Artest-Detroit brawls?

The league has been KILLED by flopping. Flopping has really made the sport more like theather or soccer and that's not what the 80's were like. Instead of attacking an obvious problem like this, Stern focuses this offseason on giving technicals for complaining.

The guy is just out of touch with what NBA fans want to see. He's been a terrible commissioner/nazi. This should really be the last straw for those who had defended Stern as competent in the past. I mean regardless of what any rule says, you have to think wholistically and look at the overall situation.

When you reward a team who initiates cheapshot type of "thuggish" activity which you feel is harming your game with a favorable outcome from an incident like this, you are showing how stubborn and inflexible you are and that you will always place strict literal interpretation over more important principles like common sense, logic, and justice.

 

Its still not neccesary... But I apologize anyways.

And I'm sorry you misunderstood my position from the get-go.

 

you're reaching now. if your argument is that the fans watch because of the level of play then they will watch when amare is back on the court. like francis 4 prez says, you can actually argue it makes for more intrigue.

 

If you can honestly think this incident won't be brought up time and time again if the Spurs ultimately win the series/championship... you're being incredibly short-sighted. The thing is, the Spurs had enough to win anyways... even if the Suns are at full strength. Even they don't need the constant criticism that the NBA is "helping" them to win the series (just like the Rockets don't need the media saying they would have never won the titles without Jordan).

Its unfortunate... for EVERYBODY.

And my argument stands... the NBA is helped by good series and good level of play by its stars more than suspensions and people dissecting rules such as this.

 

they shouldnt get suspended for leaving thier bench when there was no fight

 

Calling a jew, N-A-Z-I
you just made my day thanks

 

again, if its brought up time and time again, then how did it hurt? people argued that jordan got superstar treatment, people argued that he pushed off on byron russell, did that hurt its popularity.

I totally agree that the level of play drives bball popularity, and this won't hurt the level of overall play in the nba. I think some of you guys are letting your appreciation for the suns and dislike of the spurs cloud your overall judgement, i may be wrong.

 

Amare clearly was headed for the altercation, not nash. But it doesnt matter, his left his seat during an altercation, rules are rules.

 

Honestly, I dislike the Suns more than the Spurs... I think D'antoni is a sorry coach, Amare is a stupid player, and Nash an overrated MVP. I admire Tim Duncan, and consider him the best big man in the NBA. But, I will acknowledge that the Suns draw more casual viewers/attention than the Spurs/Jazz/Pistons because of their style of play.

I like watching good basketball... and I like seeing teams play at full strength. I also like to see the NBA prosper (otherwise I wouldn't care to argue any of this).

And bringing up negative aspects of a league (whether it be the artest brawl, suspensions, or how the most memorable part of a series was a rule technicality) doesn't help the league in the long run.

 

The altercation began right after the foul took place. He couldnt have been on the court while thr game was still in progress

 

link

By Steve Kerr, Yahoo! Sports
May 15, 2007

SAN ANTONIO – Down by eight points entering the fourth quarter of Game 4 on Monday, the Phoenix Suns faced a defining moment in their season, if not their legacy. Would they be able to overcome their reputation as a shoot-first, defend-later, style-over-substance team? Or would they dig deep, make defensive stops, overcome a rowdy crowd and beat a San Antonio Spurs team that was controlling the action with its trademark dominating defense?

Phoenix answered the question by putting together a stirring comeback to win 104-98 and even the series at 2-2. The Suns did it with gritty defense, great rebounding and a late run fueled by Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire. It was the type of game Phoenix hasn't been able to win in the past – particularly against the Spurs – and just may have been the breakthrough the team needed in its quest to win the franchise's first NBA title.

But – and it's a big but – Phoenix may be facing suspensions to both Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw for Game 5 on Wednesday.

Both players left the bench late in the game following Robert Horry's flagrant foul of Steve Nash. Under the letter of the law, each player would be automatically suspended for Game 5. In fact, the precedent that has been set by the league is that there are no exceptions to the rule. Leave the bench area and you're automatically suspended. (See Patrick Ewing, Knicks vs. Heat, 1997.) Never mind that Horry instigated the events with a dirty, thuggish takedown of Nash. Rules are rules, according to the NBA.

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However, if the league decides to suspend Diaw and Stoudemire, it may have to suspend Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen as well.

In a play that went entirely unnoticed until well after the game was over, both Duncan and Bowen actually left San Antonio's bench early in the second quarter after Francisco Elson and James Jones were entangled. Replays clearly show Duncan walking several steps onto the court as Elson and Jones appeared to be ready to get into it. Bowen then followed Duncan onto the floor, grabbed him and led him back to the bench. If the league does indeed follow the letter of the law, both Spurs players would also be suspended for Game 5.

Stu Jackson will have a busy Tuesday trying to sort everything out. The right thing to do would be to reprimand the players who left the bench area with a fine but not suspended them. The series should be decided by the teams and the players, not by an inflexible rule. The NBA needs to show some guts, announce that no suspensions will be made and have the Spurs and Suns continue what is turning into a fantastic series.

But I'm not sure if I see it happening.

In the past, Jackson and David Stern have held firm on the rule, punishing players for merely walking onto the floor a couple of steps away from the bench. There has been no flexibility. But would the league really feel like it was doing the right thing by suspending all of those players for basically doing nothing? I understand the reason for the rule – to avoid dangerous, bench-clearing brawls – but in both of the events in Game 4, no fights were involved. There were only altercations that never amounted to anything.

Jackson and Stern should take into account that not everything is black and white. They should be subjective in their ruling on this one, but again, they haven't been before.

The late-game scene took away from a fantastic Suns comeback. After playing Duncan straight up for most of the series, Phoenix threw several double teams at him that kept Duncan off balance. As a result, the Suns were able to make key stops down the stretch. At the other end, Nash overcame eight turnovers by making huge plays with the game on the line, continually finding Stoudemire in the lane for easy hoops.

Now the Suns head back to Phoenix with home-court advantage in hand, as they try to break through the mental barrier that exists for every team that has yet to win a title. To be a champion, you have to believe deep down that you're going to win, regardless of the situation. Monday's game took Phoenix one step closer to gaining that belief. But now the Suns – and the Spurs – will have to wait on the league's decisions regarding the possible suspensions.

The only player who deserves a suspension for Game 5 is Horry. As for Diaw, Stoudemire, Duncan and Bowen? We'll see.

Let's hope the league does the right thing and lets them all play. The basketball world deserves it.

Steve Kerr is Yahoo! Sports' NBA analyst. Send Steve a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

 

If rules are rules, shouldnt Duncan and Bruce be suspended also?

 

I hate to say Yes, but they broke the rule.

 

Exactly, it's pretty black and white. Per the truly strict interpretation of the rules, it does not say a player already on the court (albeit illegally) must head back to the bench if/when an altercation occurs.

 

that's true, but bench clearing brawls are a negative aspect the league doesn't want discussed either. as you know, when stern identifies a problem, he goes after it full-bore. they wanted to put an end to bench clearing brawls, and thus made a completely unambiguous statement about what is expected of players on the bench when a fight/scuffle starts. you don't move. perhaps it's overly harsh, but, like the suspensions from the palace brawl, it was done so to leave no doubt as to where the league stood on the issue. stand there and let everyone on the court sort it out, or get suspended, end of story. i'm sure david stern doesn't stay up nights wondering how he can suspend one of his stars for a playoff game, but to him and the league it's acceptable to occasionally sacrifice a stoudemire or ewing for a game to avoid a real black eye like a brawl.

and that is pretty much where race comes in. you yourself said baseball can have an integrity of the sport issue (steroids) and bench clearing brawls, or the nfl can have 4 players arrested since i started typing this post, but if the nba so much as makes a peep, they're a bunch of thugs and everything is wrong with it, so stern has to do as much as possible to keep those things from happening, even if it causes the league short term pain like suspending amare.

but it won't be. sports fans in general have very short memories and usually all that matters in the end is the result. everyone thinks that lakers/kings game 6 was rigged for the lakers, and sure people bring it up, but no one, at least media-wise, ever talks about the lakers 3rd title as tainted. people may occasionally talk about amare getting suspended occasionally on message boards like this, but if the spurs win it all they'll just be celebrated as champions, SI will print the commemorative issue, sportscenter will have a season wrap-up montage for them and SA will have a parade and this game will be long forgotten. that's just how it always ends up happening, at the end of the day people only care about the winner.

of course, SA is far from guaranteed to beat phoenix in game 5. the suns will be fired up, might play even faster and smaller than usual, the spurs might be complacent, and it's in phoenix. i don't think the spurs can blow them out so it will be close and then anything can happen and them phoenix could have all the momentum. the biggest problem is that diaw is usually the biggest benefactor of amare being out, but he's gone, too.

 

The Spurs are for better or worse now, a dynasty. Another ring is par for the course. This incident will be forgotten midway through next round.

 

i realize you've gone a little off the deep end on this issue and that's cool, but how anyone watches those videos and gets that amare was innocent is beyond me. New Yorker points out that nothing happened for a while, but that's only because raja bell doesn't travel at the speed of light. it took him a second or two to get to horry, but as soon the foul happened, everyone started converging on horry and then horry and bell went at it as soon as they got together. the altercation basically started as soon as the foul happened b/c all the suns reacted as soon as it happened and that's when amare started going over to join in (if he was going to nash, he has trouble figuring out the shortest distance b/t two points). just b/c bell wasn't technically up on horry at the exact moment amare reacted doesn't mean the fight wasn't on at that point and that amare wasn't leaving the bench to go join in a fight, only to be stopped by an assistant.