My fellow Americans, illegals and h1 visa holders, Another day, another moderate muslim with no ties to ISIS commits a mass shooting. A never ending pattern with an ideology of intolerance that doesn't see death as a big deal. There's alot more to it than shouting Allahu Akbar and having some kind of allegiance to isis. Hopefully the next guy with death on his mind goes to the mosque instead. Don't like it? Grow a pair and address the issues in your community, as well as the narratives back home. No other ideology or ethnic group would put up with it , and that's when you see the biggest issue. Deep down, when theyre not in public, moderates don't really disagree with terrorist motives. Your time will come.
That's kinda what he did, he hated the Arabs flooding into the country so he made an ad tricking them and shot them.
What do you get out of that? In what way does it help you to know his full name, his uncensored picture or the place he lived? I think it's a danger, like this situation shows. The kid apparentely had Breivik's manifest on his computer and he also made a trip to my hometown Winnenden to take a look around and make pictures. He was fascinated by these perverts and the media is a huge part of that, creating a myth for other maniacs by making him famous. I'm sure we would do better not making him "human" by showing his face and his name around. He bought the gun illegaly in the darknet, originally from Eastern Europe.
I agree with you in principle. I just don't think there are enough people reading this here that it makes a difference. But I'll take it down.
Thanks ATW, really appreciate it. I understand it wouldn't make a difference here, still the right thing to do.
Let me rephrase: it's not that I alone want to know this information. I want this information to be available to everyone. Why? Because society has a strong interest in knowing the identities of criminals. Try this on for size: "Someone Kills 9 in Munich; Details on the Shooter's Identity Will Not Be Released" I don't trust the media that much, and I don't trust the governments that much. "19 People Did 9/11. Their Identities Will Not Be Disclosed." No thanks. This is the kind of bull**** I want to avoid: Really?? Someone named only as "Lauretta" called a TV station and said she was there? That is some airtight evidence right there! No anonymous murderers (or witnesses) allowed.
About as airtight as someone observing that he had a book on columbine type killers, and using that as their justification for concluding that he is 1) not a Muslim and 2) that he was not motivated by Islamic jihadist ideology in any way. The examination of this incident and its causes is not over yet.
There's a huge gap between staying completely abstract like you are suggesting and revealing every detail like the full name and an uncensored picture. I agree that there's a need for information. Age, profession, background, possible motives and so on. You can't prevent victim's family members from speaking to the media anyway and some already did. But like I said, by sharing every private detail (media gathers around the place he lived in) you're simply giving the kid the attention and relevance he was seeking and making him an idol for other lunatics. People's safety is more important than satisfying their voyeuristic greed. Let me give you an example from the Winnenden shooter: The day after, the media ATW quoted published a virtual drawing of the maniac entering a class room with a gun in his hand and wearing a black bullet proof vest (which he never wore in reality). That's the kind of ****ed up stuff that gives mentally ill people the heroic impression of power and force they are looking for themselves and makes doing the same **** attractive to them.
We may agree on some things. . . . First, I agree that the Winnenden example you give (I take your word for it) is bad. 1) It fictionalized and dramatized the event by filtering it through an artist's imagination. 2) It got at least one fact wrong. It also reminds me: if you think that is bad, how about Hollywood (your description reminded me of The Basketball Diaries, which supposedly inspired the Columbine sexually frustrated lovers/murder-suiciders). <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y2e3frGx8sw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> And video games? American society is drowning in images of murder. My freakin parents watch murder scenes on TV while they eat their dinner. I don't have a solution. But I also don't think our need to know about real murderers is outweighed by any extra glorification of violence that may produce. American minds are saturated with violence no matter what. It sucks, but that's who we have allowed ourselves to become.
I can only give you a german source but the images should do it (the red spot on his face is made by this site, in the original newspaper the drawing showed an uncensored face: http://www.bildblog.de/6413/wie-bild-den-amoklauf-in-szene-setzt/. Let me also give you a raw translation of the quote that is given by a criminologist on that site: "[The chances of imitation] are very high. Media is a reason, who show the face of the offender, his weapons, his dark clothes. That draws a mystic image. That appears like a rolemodel. When it comes to suicides, media is very reluctant, to not provoke imitators. At shootings unfortunately it is the exact opposite. From now on there's a huge danger to see an offender imitating in the next few weeks or months." I think even ill minds like his still differentiate between fact and fiction or simply get more attracted by real cases. The kid played CS, but millions of 18 year olds do. Pretty sure the decisive factor here is idolizing Breivik - the more we learn about the situation, the more we can be sure it's no coincidence he chose that date - and other shooters and wanting to be like them.
You say he was inspired by this guy: Weird, coz someone named "Lauretta" called a TV station and said the shooter was shouting "Allahu Akbar" :grin: But that's beside the point. You've heard the saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"? You might say the same for photos. But I actually do believe guns kill people. . . . I will grant you that stuff like this glorifies the accused and may increase the likelihood that someone seeks the same kind of infamy: But I still feel the need to know who is killing us outweighs the risk of psychos getting a boner about news reports. We cannot be ruled by the prospects of what psychos might do. Cf. gun policy.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a class="hashtag" action="hash" title="#BREAKING">#BREAKING</a>: Man kills woman with machete in Reutlingen, Germany is 21-year-old Syrian asylum seeker <a href="https://t.co/5RDcfN0R7I" title="http://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/757250480762449920/photo/1">pic.twitter.com/5RDcfN0R7I</a></p>— Amichai Stein (@AmichaiStein1) <a href="https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/757250480762449920" data-datetime="2016-07-24T16:25:58+00:00">July 24, 2016</a></blockquote> <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Yes, like I said they found Breivik's manifest on the kid's PC and he apparentely even wrote his own. The "Allahu Akbar" thing hasn't been confirmed and does not fit to what we know so far, so it might be a hoax. Wow... if I found this cover randomly on the Internet, I'd think it is fake. Have no words for that. Guess we're somewhat on the same page, just a matter of scaling. Like I said... parts of the name, age, profession and stuff like that has to be shared, but please no uncensored pictures and full names.
