ok...i'm talking about the constitution as it exists today. you know we had that whole civil war thing, the emancipation proclamation and that 14th amendment dealie bopper, too. we shed a lot of american blood over this issue.
1991...not 1891...1991. the same man is in power today, MacBeth. the same dictator. the same man who started the war. do you understand the difference? as for my "land grab" statement...i had the 20th century in mind. hawaii? come on macbeth..you can do better than that. i know the united states was the great conqueror of hawaii, but certainly you can do better.
I read that from the Palestinian Chronicle. With most media sources that we read largely Israeli-biased, viewing other media sources is a way to get other opinions and facts about matters. Just because a few Israeli and other sites state that this is NOT true does not mean that it isn't. If it is, then it is and if it isn't than it isn't. The truth though is that our unwavering political support for Ariel Sharon's regime has affected our international credibility and is hurting our image in the eyes of the entire world except for JohnHeath, Franchise2001 and the 14 million jewish people in the world, many of whom are against the illegal occupation of the Palestinians as well. www.nimn.org Yeah John Heath, i'm the Hamas Propaganda minister within the clutch BBS!! You're an idiot and you constant push to discredit me is foolhardy when you will not answer the US State department findings contradicting your statements about Israeli treatment of other religions within Israel.
Sweet Land of Liberty! O thee I sing! In Israel's desert, a fight for land 70,000 Bedouin live in villages that are officially unrecognized by the Israeli government. By Ben Lynfield | Special to The Christian Science Monitor TEL MALAH, ISRAEL – The first Friday prayers at Tel Malah's new mosque were supposed to be a joyous occasion. "We used to have to travel 12 kilometers [7.5 miles] to pray," said Khalil Abu Massad, a local resident. "The idea was that now we would have our own mosque." But with the community's dispersal an official objective of the Israeli government, it was more than a question of convenience. The Bedouin village of 3,000, situated on desert hills turned green from the winter rain, is comprised mostly of shanties with corrugated roofs and yards of goats, camels and small olive trees. The mosque was made from concrete, a sign of permanence, and for Israeli authorities, a challenge. On Feb. 5, two days before the Friday service but well after an order to stop building, Israeli bulldozers turned the new mosque into a heap of rubble and twisted metal, touching off outrage among Israeli Muslims and condemnations from some Jewish leaders as well. Michael Melchior, an Orthodox rabbi and member of Knesset, termed the demolition "a disgrace." For the state of Israel, as well as for the 70,000 Bedouin living in 46 unrecognized villages, there is more at stake here than the mosque. The Tel Malah dispute comes as the cabinet prepares to approve a new plan for the Negev Desert that officials, analysts, and Bedouin activists say will boost efforts to move the Bedouin out of their 46 unrecognized villages and estimated 62,500 acres of land and into seven townships and a handful of planned communities. The reason given for the demolition was that the mosque was built without a permit. But since Tel Malah, which has no electricity, water, or services, is unrecognized by authorities, there is now no legal means of obtaining a permit. David Cohen, the official who decided on the demolition, said he would not have granted one and would instead have encouraged residents to relocate to a town that already has mosques. Mr. Cohen, the southern district director for the Interior Ministry, says he tolerates most illegal structures but could not overlook this construction because it was outside the area previously used by the community. "We saw this as a deliberate attempt to expand the area they are using," he said. "They refused to stop." In a show of defiance, activists began rebuilding the site. Cohen, for his part, says he is ready to demolish it again. The Negev plan includes changes in the law to make demolitions easier and, at the prompting of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, the establishment of 30 new family farms for Jews only. Taleb Sanaa, a Bedouin member of the Knesset, calls it "a declaration of war against the Bedouin citizens." But Cohen sees the plan as a means to stop the "incursions" of Bedouin onto lands claimed by the state. He says that due to a high natural birth rate, expansion by Bedouin is taking place at an "astonishing rate." Bedouin activist Atiyeh Asim says the expansion is a result of "natural growth" and adds that the government facilitates the expansion of Jewish towns. "We have children and we want to live," he says. "The main problem is that the government wants the land we are on. It wants to concentrate the Bedouin, the way the Americans did to the Indians." "We do not demand reparations for [the Israeli town of] Mitzpe Ramon and we do not want to kick out the people who live there now, but we say: Let us have the land we are on now and do not take it from under our feet," he says. Cohen, however, says there is "no chance" the state will recognize the 46 communities. "From an economic point of view, the state simply cannot run after every extended family and set up roads, water, electricity, and sewage. We are not going to draw up master plans for every group of a few hundred people. And there is no way that we will allow the region to be transformed into an assortment of [Bedouin] clusters that will grow together over time." In Cohen's view, the solution lies in moving the Bedouin into seven existing towns and seven new areas that are being planned. He sees this being done by use of both the carrot and the stick, with an improvement in infrastructure, services, and economic opportunities making a move more attractive. Reuven Aharoni, a Haifa University expert on the Bedouin, predicts that Israel will fail to move more Bedouin into towns. "The main problem is there is no employment for them," he said. "There are also cultural reasons such as not being accustomed to living in crowded town conditions and tribal leaders not wanting changes that would erode their standing." In Tel Malah, Abu Massad, the local resident, welcomes a visitor into what he calls his family's diwan, or court. "All of the villages used to drink from this well, but now we cannot even see it." The well is in an area that is now part of the neighboring Israeli Air Force base, built during the 1980s, he says. "My ancestors drank from that well from the beginning," he says. Cohen says that the residents of Tel Malah were compensated when the airforce base was built and they moved away. But in recent years they came back, he says. Residents deny having left. "The government will have to decide what do with them," Cohen says. "I am very skeptical that Tel Malah will ever be a permanent settlement. There is definitely a very big question about it." Abu Massad says he recently found a notice from the government saying his diwan is to be demolished. "There is no security here," he says. "They can come at any time and tell you, take your kids out of the house, we are destroying it. But I won't ever move to a town. I am only comfortable here. Even if I have to sleep in my car, I'll never leave."
Wrong! All I wanted from you is the acknowledgement that you passed on incorrect information unknowingly. Apparently, the truth about this matter is not important to you.
And I didn't say it wasn't "relevant." I said the US has recognized that it was a mistake and has taken steps to improve the situation for Native Americans. Now look at dictatoships, how many have realized their mistakes and taken steps to improve things for their people? It's funny seeing you guys not being able to admit that democracy is a great thing and morally superior to other systems. But I guess if it makes America look good, then you can't agree with it?
Just a few points.... This is an interesting thread. I am the first to admit that i really have no idea of the truth of what is happening in the Middle East regarding Israel and Palastine. I would like to know the truth or at least some truthful history leading up to today. I don't really trust Sharon. I also don't understand America's unwavering support for him. That doesn't mean I am in support of Arafat. They both seem unwillng to come to a compromise. In my eyes, both sides are guilty. It seems that a lot of the resentment of us is due to this support of Israel and also of our occupation throughout the Middle East. Some of you need to keep in mind that America is a very young country that quickly grew into a world power. Don't be offended when it is pointed out that we have a shady history. We do have a shady past. Deal with it. You have to remember that some countries have been around for centuries. I think that is kind of where FatFatCow is coming from. We act like we are the authority on how the world should be run. What we do works well for us. That doesn't mean that it will work for the Chinese, or the Middle East, or Russia...etc. We do poke our noses in other country's business when we probably shouldn't. (Granted, sometimes we have to.) It's not like the entire population if China is oppressed. Apparently there are millions and millions of people living happy lives. There are human rights issues everywhere. It could be argued that we still have some issues here at home. I'm not saying we torture and kill our own. But many would argue that not everyone is equal in America. It's not about power, oil or land. It all boils down to organized religion. Religion and war go hand in hand. It's pretty ironic since every religion on this Earth preaches peace. Apparently that only applies to those who follow the same religion. There is no tolerance of beliefs that differ. This has gone on for all of time. It probably will not change until the theory of God is dis-proven by aliens who come back to Earth and prove that we were all indeed created by means of alien experiments! Then the whole world will fall into chaos and destroy itself faster than it currently is.
Unceasing warfare gives rise to its own social conditions which have been similar in all epochs. People enter a permanent state of alertness to ward off attacks. You see the absolute rule of the autocrat. All new things become dangerous frontier districts--new planets, new economic areas to exploit, new ideas or new devices, visitors--everything suspect. Feudalism takes firm hold, sometimes disguised as a polit-bureau or some similar structure, but always present. Hereditary succession follows the lines of power. The blood of the powerful dominates. The vice regents of heaven or their equivalent apportion the wealth. And they know they must control inheritance or slowly let power melt away. Now do you understand Leto's Peace? --The Stolen Journals
Given enough time for the generations to evolve, the predator produces particular survival adaptations in its prey which, through the circular operation of feedback, produce changes in the predator which again change the prey--etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....Many powerful forces do the same thing. You can count religions among such forces. --The Stolen Journals
Religion (emulation of adults by the child) encysts past mythologies: guesses, hidden assumptions of trust in the universe, pronouncements made in search of personal power, all mingled with shreds of enlightenment. And always an unspoken commandment: Thou shalt not question! We break that commandment daily in the harnessing of human imagination to our deepest creativity. --Bene Gesserit Credo
We obviously disagree on what qualifies as fact, and I would love to hear a definable factual interpretation of what 'morally superior' is...The problem with autocracies and/or dictatorships is that they reflect the 'morals' of one or a few people as opposed to the masses...but that doesn't necessarily make them inferior..in fact they could be 'superior'...they just aren't as representative. And when it comes down to how reflective current democracies are of the mass morality, I defer to Thoreau...
The point is about moral imperatives...It's not as if everyone starts with the moral justification to invade anyone, and then loses same after so many demerit points...The point is that the US is claiming a unique status; the right to determine what is right and wrong for other nations, or the right to invade 'pre-emptively' contrary to the UN rules of self-defense largely written by the US themselves...The US is claiming to be above such petty qualifications based on moral superiroty, and I am stating that their record doesn't back that statement up...not that they would have to be worse, or as bad as Iraq to be justified in invading, but they would have to be a hell of a lot better than they are... Suppose that Sweden has a better current track record than us, does that give them the moral justification for invading us and establishing a system refelective of their own?
