OK then its settled! Shaq was being extremely insensitive and has proven his own ignorance. This is a chance for YAO to be more supreme than O'Neil on and off the court. Go get'em Yao, work Shaq over and shut his mouth. More importantly, make your team (Rockets) better than Shaq's team (Lakers). Oh by the way, since everyone feels its important, I am a Caucasian. Next Thread PLEASE!
i find myself much more concerned with the color of the jersey (and the houston logo on the front) then i do the color of the skin of the player wearing the jersey. go Yao...go Rockets!!! beat the crap out of fat shaq!
jlaw, you make some terrific points... and i'll be the first to admit to a bit of nitpicking when I pointed out the typos and the factual errors. but i think the essence of what i was trying, perhaps poorly, to convey is that one should always be careful not to let the heart and content of one's message to be muddled by inaccuracy and lack of clarity. so i will let your use of 'principals', rather than 'principles' slide... wink wink... and the use of all the legalese? man, I thought I was on break from law school.... On the whole, I believe Fuzzy's comments and Shaq's comments were made along the same vein. both athletes came from sheltered backgrounds (basketball courts, country clubs) who were responding, at least partly out of jealousy (of course, wholly conjecture at this point, but probably true in Fuzzy's case), to a rising athlete from a very non-traditional racial background in the sport. When I said Shaq doesn't know any any better, I meant that he probably didn't preceive the remark to be any more demeaning than the typical verbiage thrown around the NBA courts and locker rooms... Now, why was Fuzzy was immediately ostracized while Shaq (The Big Groom) will probably keep going about his merry ways? It's a rather sad fact of Americana that stereotypical remarks made towards those ethnic groups who are traditionally perceived to be lower on the social strata are usually deemed offensive; and the same remarks made towards ethic groups who are higher on the social strata are perceived as harmless... I'm in no way condoning this practice, it's merely a sad reality... Having gone to undergrad at Duke, I perceive that to be the reason why the chant "Ugly White Guy" is a popular chant when we played Serge Zwikker (UNC) and Jason Collier (GaTech); yet, the chant "Ugly Black Guy" would be ridiculously too offensive. I, for one, hated every chant which incorporated the player's race. I echo the sentiments a few posters on this board in that a player should be judged by the color of his jersey, rather than the color of his skin tone... Your point illustrates the ideal scenario (that everything is judged on a color-blind basis) that I hope the world can operate under one day; but as we all know from living here in the States, idealism and the race question is an extremely sensitive and tenuous topic; and those with far superior intellects than us posters have failed to reach a common conclusion... I appreciate your input...
The remarks wouldn't have the same meaning. These words have power behind them because of our history, not because the words themselves are inherently evil or something. Trying to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. Also, I've noticed that a lot of new fans to this board are quick to throw out the racism card when it comes to Yao Ming. First it was members of the USA Team like Ben Wallace who were racist. Then it was all the writers who were racist. Then it was Barkley who's a racist and now it's Shaq who's racist. With very few exceptions, the people charged with being a racist have given Yao Ming his proper respect once they were proven wrong with their ignorant comments. Maybe some of yall should just lay off the racism card for a while because it's getting really old.
I'm Asian-American and let me just say that it's just not Shaq saying these things. Regular joe-sic pack on sports forums, writers in respected newspaper columns, and Sports talk-show hosts and guests are all saying these things about Yao. I've heard him Compared to chopsticks- with references to Chinese Fever, fortune cookies, General Tsao Chicken, slanty eyes.. etc. etc. DavidS, if you want me to walk in your shoes before "boo-hooing" to you, you need to reciprocate before waving this off as a misunderstanding. In other words, don't tell me, as an Asian what I can and will complain about because you have absolutely no idea what I (and other Asian-Americans) have gone through. (say that in a rising angered voice for full feeling) Shaq spewing out steretypical Chinese Kung-fu voices when speaking about a Chinese person has societal reprucusions whether you want to believe it or not. I have been asked if "I know karate/kung-fu" more times than I care to count. You know why they're asking me that and not you DavidS? Its because of how we are portrayed on television and popular culture, its the perpetuation of stereotypes at the quickest rate. Its Jackie Chan, Chow-Yun Fat, Jet Li and Bruce Lee... quick name another Asian movie star that doesn't break a wooden board with his head. Oh ok you couldn't. So yes, Shaq, a sportswriter or even the regular joe has much to do with my life, and when/if they trivialize it to popular perceptions (i.e. fortune cookies), you'll have to excuse me if I have something to say about it. STuart
Agreed, people need to edjucate them selves on what is being a racist and what is stereotyping. To sum it up, being a racist is not liking someone because of their race alone with out knowing the person - personally. Shaq is not a racist. Shaq never said he doesnt like Yao Ming because of his ethnic background or because he is chinese. He made a stereotyping comment about him. It was a very ignorant comment and being a brotha Shaq should know better however that was stereotyping about a race. I have a white buddy who is a CEO who when ever we speak he always say's whats up DAWG! Because I know him and the person he is I know he doesnt mean it in a negative way. "He is stereotyping me and how as a group we speak" But he is not being racist... Was Shaq wrong? Yes.. Is he a Racist? No...
In Defense of David S. I think you are misunderstanding him. He was just saying the comments were wrong but the were just stereotypically wrong. I understand everything that you posted and your right, I think David would agree with you. But people were jumping on Shaq as being a racist as he is not. Funny thing is I bet everyone on this board makes their little stereotypical comments in the privacy of their home. But get on the board and post like they never have made them...
Thank you Sabonis... you said exactly what I was trying to say only better!! I didn't come to this country on a tire-tube just becuase I'm Cuban and Yao doesn't know kung-fu or eat fortune cookies just because he is Chinese. It offends me when people assume anything about me simply because of the way I look, sound, or act. I speaks volumes about Yao's class and dignity that he has handled this with such grace and tact. Every day that goes by this NBA season makes me thankful all over again to those lovely little ping-pong balls. How did we get so lucky as to get such a great player and person on the Rockets?
I don't think we are all calling Shaq a racist. MY point is that what Shaq said was racist. I don't believe Shaq to be a racist, but he made stereotypical (your word) remarks about a person based on their race and ethnicity... and to me that is being racist. (To clarify: "being racist," once again, doesn't mean that I think Shaq IS a racist, just that when he made those comments he was [all together now] "BEING RACIST").
Well I think you are giving him way too much credit. Why was it so easy for you to summarize his argument in such a less-insensitive way? He should choose his words carefully. He took a smug "My people's trials are better than yours" and that this wasn't a fight worth mentioning much less fighting. He declared it to be polical correctness at its worse. I take nothing back of what I said, I appreciate you trying to diffuse the situation, but again, I believe you are giving him too much credit. STuart
As Asian American, I personally don't find Shaq's comments offensive even though they were insensitive. The reason is, I've encountered numerous situations where someone says something that might be offensive but don't realize it because they didn't mean it. I don't think Shaq meant those things and would be stupid enough to air it radio unless he thought that people would take them for what they are; trash talking. The point of trash talking is to get under someone's skin and stir controversy. There isn't a correct way to trash talk. Would it have made any difference if Shaq called Yao a "lanky, Frankenstein looking mother f&%$#? No, it's still offensive even though it wasn't racist in nature. Let me go back to what I'm talking about with racist comments that weren't racist. A co worker one year called me sushi, even though I'm not Japanese. ( Not that anyone cares to distinguish us) He happened to be African American. I calmly let him know that it was offensive. And I asked him,"Would you like it if someone called you fried chicken" Not to insult back but to give him a comparison. Everyone at the workplace gasped and took a step backwards. Like what I said was totally worse than what he said. He smiled and said, 'I get your point. I didn't mean it that way, I was trying to give you a nickname, that's all.' Whaich was cool. we never had a problem after that. I always hear other races use words like "slanty", "chink", and "gook" in front of me without even thinking. I know they aren't trying to insult me, but they say these things. My theory is that Asians in general are very passive people, and people assume it's OK. Plus, Asians do not have a political and social organizations that stick up for us like other minorities. You say one thing about blacks and Hispanics and what do you see in the news? Demonstrations lead by political groups. Watch any stand up comedians and see how many of them poke fun at Asians. My advise is don't let them get to you. Pick your battles. If someone verbally or physically harasses you or your family directly and threateningly, then step up and fight. Don't let what some dumb jocks say bother you. I'm Asian, but they sure as hell didn't care when I joined the Marine Corps. And ease up on the poster's spelling of O'neal. Like he's insulting Shaq's well known Irish heritage. The poster had better spelling and grammar than 90% of you in here.
Shaq just like to trash talk everybody..like he called the Sacramento QUEENS...just learn to ignore him..he told the press about the Sacramento Kings "you can talk the talk but can you walk the walk?"..he should be looking in a mirror and saying that to himself
uh....our? I'll presume you are African American. but how is calling Tiger a fried chicken lover any more demeaning to your history then calling Ming, Ching Chong kunfu fighter? And when did this become a Asian vs. African American who's been shafted by racism lately debate? Frankly, I blame Shaq's 'ignorance' on the American Media and the entertainment industry. Every depiction of Asian Americans are with straw hats, an accent and accompanied by the classic stereotypical tune. And this of course is not the only example of scrutiny by the movie industry, how about the 60s when most movies only portray blacks as slaves or criminals. And who should account for this injustice? The damn money sucking, tax evading, Palestinian hating, Senator gift giving(so that we can waste our tax money on fighting in the middle east) Jews of course (comments made prior to 'Jews' were jokes due to ignorance) Just thought I distribute the stereotype a little Seriously, here's the Lakers public relations contact, please use all your energy on him rather than on fellow Rockets fans. L.A. LAKERS - John Black; Office: (310) 426-6004; jblack@la-lakers.com
Whoa.....wierd..... Who is this guy? He's an old Ag, an Asian, born in College Station, an Aggie who is anti-Aggie traditions, just registers here at the Clutch BBS, posts ONE TIME and there is a four page response. Is he reading this? Is he using all of us just to write another book? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/f...rev_pagepos2/103-3711555-7674231#rated-review Read the 2nd review down. Wow. Talk about in-depth reviews. Now I don't have to read the book. No $17 for you, Mr. Tang. This is an interesting thread..I think I will read it all one day and post again...but for now.. My take on Shaq and others who do Asian imitation jokes: It isn't funny. It does not offend me. It sounds stupid and childish. It obviously offends some/a lot of people. Does the fact that people are offended by things make it wrong? That's debateable. African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Anglo-Americans, Native-Americans all have different perspectives and opinions to add to this subject. In Enter the Dragon , Bruce Lee was crying when he went to the movies and saw the Jerry Lewis skit. Bruce Lee rocks, and can definitely kick my ass in less than 5 seconds, but man...that's too girly sensitive for me. If people would get less offended, or less mad, and be more like Andy Kauffman and his take on life, the crap wouldn't be so crappy. And too many of y'all are making the crap too crappy. The only time I can recall and Asian language jokes being funny was in Austin Powers. *** me and *** you. And the subtitles. You know the movie is not trying to be offensive, just funny, and innocent, and all about "sessual" innuendo. Yeah baby! Yeah!
My last reply was to u851662... still getting used to this board. I agree Eric.81 and I meant to mention it also, Yao Ming has done great thus far. He has had success on the court and has exceeded expectations of even the most pro-Yao Ming follower. Not only that, he seems to have been embraced by the media and has presented himself as a down-to-earth humble individual. Hopefully that type of personality, starts a trend that harkens us back to what it was like back in the early mid-80s. STuart
Once again edjucate yourself on what is being racist and what is stereotyping.... Easily and to oftenly confused..... Yes I agree he should choose his words in a more sensitive way what he thought was a joke a million others probably didnt. However, let him know your were offended and Im sure he would apologize and say no-offense meant. He thought it would be funny, I bet he looks back on it and regrets it. As is life we live and we learn, im pretty sure he learned...
