"Offensive and insulting" are different than being a "racist." Why? Because the term "racist," at least from an American standpoint in history, carries heavy connotations of slavery, oppression, and murder. Again, what Shaq said was an insensitive stereotype, but his comments doesn't automatically make him a racist? My position is not that people shouldn't be accountable for their actions and words, but that people are throwing out the racist-card like you would hand out animal-crackers. See, it's much easier to call someone a racist, than it is to calm-down, relax, count to 10, and intelligently, yet reasonably figure-out what really happened. What is happening is that we are quick to judge, and jumping to conclusions way before the issues have been laid out on the table. Take a look at the picture below (Yao and Shaq)....and then you'll see the real issue. And you guys wanted to crucify him!
allornothing, thanks for being reasonable. I find it ironic that you screen-name, is "allornothing." Because it's that type of thinking that I'm trying to battle.
WORD. I think the popularity part of the vote is actually good for the NBA. granted, it lets people like Vince Carter be on the team... but it also keeps completely arrogant pricks and assholes from getting on the squad.. or at least starting.. this proves that people dislike Shaq in comparison to Yao, both in talent and in persona.. and in such a high profile game, both are important.
Interesting point...regarding the the fans being able to keep out the jerks. I guess that's why Rodman was never invited! One note about Yao... The NY, Boston, DC media loves Yao! Why? Well, it brings back times from the "old school days." Anyone remember the old Knick teams, and the style they played? Yao brings back memories from the days of Bill Bradley, Walt Frazier and Willis Reed. One of the best team-oriented units that ever won a championship.
David, I don't understand the fine line you're drawing. I think youre hispanic (right?). Let's say there's a bunch of co-workers standing around and one of them says to the group: "Hey, what do you think of David?" One of them starts making some swimming motions and says "you mean the we*b**ck?" The group starts laughing. That is an insulting and offensive comment and stereotype. Is that not also a racist comment - even if he was trying to be funny.
It depends. A few of them might be laughing because of peer presure (one of the boys). Some might know it's wrong. One might not. But I can't jump to conclusions. It might be an offensive stereotype. But they are not necessarily "racist." Wannna hear a interesting story? One time I was working late (IT company), and I was the last of 3 people in the office. I went to the office that had two business types in there working (both white) and I was going to tell them that I was leaving the office and they had to lock up. At the time I had my jogging uniform on (off-hours from the gym). As I peeked my head into the office, one of the business types said to me..."Oh, yes. Come in, the trash is behind the door." His co-worker said, "Hey Bill. That's David. He works here." Now, you should have seen the look on that guys face when he automatically assumed I was a janitor. Was he a racist? No. But he did have stereotype ideas running around in his head. Who knows where he picked them up. But we all have them. And not all of them must be considered "racist." I have another story that is MORE harsh, let me know if you want to hear that one. This one will send shivers (of embarrassment) up your spine.
...or... using some caricature of a hispanic accent? Would that be funny, DavidS? DavidS, You apparently missed the extensive threads on this when it first happened. They were many Asians offended by Shaq's caricature of Chinese. They felt that it was demeaning to them. That was good enough for me. I posted enough there to satisfy myself on this topic. I would really enjoy watching you walk up to a group of Asians, say 'ching-chang-cho', and see how they react. If it's not wrong, if its not offensive to them, you've got nothing to fear. ...but I think they'll kick your ass. Got it?
Oh, I see, kick someone's ass. That will solve what people think. You are treating the symptoms. Not the disease. Cohen, by the way. I think you are on the right track here. Offensive and insensitive are the better words to use. I think that fits the crime.
The funny thing is my Trent Lott comments along with the stuff about Magic, Bird, etc and the whole irony of defense one culture over another didn't come from me. I took that from a Bill Walton column on ESPN. Is there anyone more liberal or supportive of minority causes than that guy? Most of my frustration, however, I'll confess has little to do with race. And I can honestly say that I probably went overboard in my last post because I was frustrated. See, this is more about loyalty to me than racism or offensive comments. I can dismiss Shaq as just trying to be funny and ending up being stupid. This wouldn't be the first time he did it. I totally respect his game on the floor and he deserves the right to brag on himself. No, what bugs me is the unwillingness to have the back of your own players. I mean, if this was your FRIEND and some stranger acted like that towards him, I'd HOPE that you wouldn't just tell your friend to "get over it." I would HOPE that you would be up in the guy's face telling him to back off or he'd have to answer to you too. Maybe the comments were no big deal, but NO ONE rolls up on one of my friends and says something offensive without me absolutely defending my friend 100 percent. Period. It's loyalty. You know, I love Michael Jordan's game. I think the guy was probably the greatest ball player ever. But, when he played the Rockets, I hoped he would suck donkey balls for 48 minutes. I loved Olajuwon rejecting him. I hated Barkely. I just didn't like his game or his attitude. But, when he became a Rocket, he became my new favorite player. As much as I hate the Lakers, I still pull for Robert Horry to succeed because HE WAS ONCE A ROCKET. I was more than willing to admit that Vince Carter's dunks were better than Francis' imperically during the slam dunk competition (that between-the-legs one had me screaming so loud, my neighbors heard), but there was NO WAY anyone was going to convince me to root for Vince to beat Steve. NO WAY! Of course you try to see the reality in basketball. You see the greatness in other players - I still get chills when I watch clips of Dr. J and Pete Maravich; I still have Vince Carter's dunk over that French guy in the Olympics on video tape; I nearly pass out every time I see that Bird rebound, switch hands in mid-air, left hand jumper from behind the backboard; Jordan's shrug to Magic in the Finals still makes me smile - but it doesn't compare to the love of THIS team. THAT is why people get all over Shaq for ANY sleight of Yao in here. That's what it means to be a Rockets fan at least to me. So, sorry for inflaming the race riot. I really just want to see some loyalty and the bashing around here makes it difficult sometimes.
May I ask what ethnicity are you? Asian is a very general description, you know. If you are a Chinese who was born and grown up here, I am sure nobody ever try to mock your look or the language of your parents or grandparents, otherwise I am SURE you found it VERY funny and have made a lot of friends. I personally dont think Shaq is a racist, but that doesnt mean his "jokes" werent racist. What annoys me more about Shaq isn't his initial racial joke but rather his insincere apology. If African Americans would find watermelon and fired chickens "jokes" not just insensitive, but racist, they shouldnt tell the Chinese Americans to think otherwise. And I do agree the term "racist" shouldnt be used lightly, it should be reserved for those who really deserve it like David Duke , and Trent Lott.
BINGO!!!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER! That is exactly how I felt when heard Shaq's comments about 6 months ago (right after the draft) on BDSSP (Fox Sports Net).... I said in my mind, "Shaq is mocking Yao because he thinks the guy can't play. Hey, that's my Rocket he's talking trash about...Ok, Shaq, Yao will get the last laugh." I really believed that. And I still do. Yao will have the last laugh. And that's the best way to kill stereotypes. Go out and prove it.
Yes, but people are unable to differentiate the difference between "racist comments" and "a racists." They just lump them together. That would mean that Shaq was just has bad a David Duke. That's why it's a bad idea to just throw out the racist card evertime someone says a insensitive remark.
Not sure if I should close this or not, but this thread is all over the place. Colin Powell, KKK, racism, David Duke, Shaq, Yao, etc., etc. I don't see much Rockets-related discussion at all. If you want to discuss the other stuff, go to the NBA Forum or the BBS Forum. Go Yao Go Rockets Go Away Shaq
