Yeah, After shaq left Penny led the team to 13-2 and then got the injury. That team was built around Shaq too.
"After Shaq left" I don't know what you mean. In that 1996 season, Shaq was still there...he was just out for the month of DEC. I believe with a toe or finger injury. The Magic still hand Horance, Nick Anderson, and Dennis Scott.
I just want to point out that Shaq had the disadvantage of basically playing the Pistons by himself. Wallace played great, but he had tons of help from his teammates. I know they didn't double Shaq as much as other teams, but the great team-d help control the tempo of the game and restricted the Lakers from making good entry passes to Shaq's favorites spots.
Exactly. And in 2 months, JumpMan is quickly becoming known as someone who does not want to lose an argument, LOL.
I agree with memphis-x. No, actually I think Penny was better than Kobe is. Check the stats to see for yourself what he how he did against the Rockets as a rookie in the 95 finals.
I can't believe you guys are actually going to argue this. Ask this question to any NBA player or analyst who has seen or played against both, and you'll get the same unequivocal answer, Kobe Bryant. Penny could put the ball in the basket, but not on the same level as Kobe. Can you say 40 points in 9 straight games? Kobe is simply a better shooter and has better individual moves than Penny did. Kobe is also more athletic and has better body control, which allows him to be better at finishing in traffic. He has become legendary in that aspect. What about defense? Kobe Bryant, no contest. Who's more clutch? Penny was a clutch player himself, but there's a reason why people compare Kobe Bryant and not Penny Hardaway to the clutchest players of all time. Work ethic/will? Kobe Bryant, hands down. He may be the hardest worker in the NBA. Both players are/were hyped up and popular beyond belief, but Kobe Bryant is in a whole different class than Penny ever was in. Penny was an unbelievable player, but the only skills he had above Kobe are passing and maybe ballhandling. I hate Kobe Bryant with an absolute passion due to his greed/arrogance, but even I have to admit that this isn't a close comparison.
There's nothing clutch about Kobe's finals performance last season, whereas Penny always raised his game in the playoffs - thats a fact. Maybe people don't speak of Penny as a clutch player cuz he's basically forgotten as his career got derailed so prematurely from the knee injury. anyway, Kobe ain't better offensively - he got shut down by Prince, whereas Penny used to torch Pippen (a comparable defender to Prince). Penny also got back to back 40s in the playoffs against the Heat back when they had really good team D and were focused on stopping Penny (everyone else on that Orlando team was crap), and he did it shooting close to 50% and playing on a bum knee. Lets see Kobe do that. Also, its not hard to score 40 pts a game if you're taking 30 shots per, which I believe Kobe was doing during his stretch of 40s. Kobe might be a slightly better finisher, but I don't think so - maybe you think that cuz we're so used to seeing him penetrate and try to dunk or drive on 4 people, whereas Penny more often would spread the floor and dish to the open man.
Agreed, but you're gonna discount the previous 3 series this year and the 4 years before that based on one bad finals performance? Please. His track record speaks for itself. Or because he simply wasn't clutch enough to be compared to past NBA legends in that aspect. There's a reason why he didn't get the comparisons then either. A clutch player? Yes. Clutch enough to be compared to the Jerry West's, Michael Jordan's, and Reggie Miller's of the NBA? No way. Penny wasn't the scorer Kobe is, plain and simple. There is no arguing that Kobe is the better shooter and finisher, and has better individual moves. Don't tell me that it's not hard to score 40 pts a game in 9 straight games when the only player who has done it since Wilt is Michael Jordan. BTW, Kobe was shooting around 48% during that streak. And Penny wasn't the one torching Pippen and the Bulls. If you remember the Bulls-Magic so-called rivalry in the mid 90's, you'd know that it couldn't even be called a rivalry. The Magic beat the Bulls 4-2 during Jordan's comeback year. And Shaquille O'Neal was the one doing the torching. Then after Jordan spent the entire offseason working like a madman and the Bulls acquired Dennis Rodman, the Bulls whipped up on the Magic the next year and Shaq skipped town. Go ahead and take a poll of NBA analysts and players who have seen or played against both. I guarantee you Kobe Bryant wins in a landslide. I'll be the first one to criticize Kobe: he's arrogant, he's selfish, he takes bad shots, etc. But I'm not naive enough to make this argument.
Everyone else on that team was crap? Umm, let's see. You had Rony Seikaly putting up 17.3ppg, 9.5rpg, and 1.4bpg on 51% shooting. You had two pretty deadeye shooters on the wing in Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott. And you had Horace Grant in his prime, putting up 12.6ppg and 9.0rpg on 51.5% shooting. That team had 6 players averaging double figures in Hardaway, Seikaly, Grant, Scott, Anderson, and Gerald Wilkins off the bench. Penny had help. I'm not saying that Penny wasn't an unbelievable player. He was. He just isn't in Kobe's class.
Well said v-dub. No one could contain Shaq, not even B-Dub. Head to head Shaq dominated on the scoring end and held his own rebounding (2 rpg advantage - Ben) and defensively (0.6 bpg advantage - Ben). As you pointed out the difference was that the Pistons played awesome as a team. The Lakers were basically asleep at the wheel the entire series. Shaq had no help whatsoever. He was pulled away from the basket to the weak side allowing Prince, Hamilton and Billups easy access to the basket almost every trip down court. No disrespect to Ben Wallace because he did play great, but his matchup with Shaq did not decide the game. It was decided by the other 4 Pistons outplaying the other 4 Lakers on the court.
On the subject of Kobe vs. Penny, people are forgetting just how awesome Hardaway was. When he and Shaq took the Magic to the finals, neither had hit their prime. Hardaway never had a chance to reach his peak when he suffered the injury. It's very conceivable that without the injury, Hardaway would've performed better than Kobe in his prime. He was less explosive to the basket than Kobe, but is a better post-up player. As well as being a better passer(playing PG very well when Shaq was in Orlando). His outside shooting was also quite proficient, even as a young player. The Kobe/Penny comparison is quite valid. As for Shaq vs. Big Ben, there's no question that Shaq dominated that matchup. Sure, Ben Wallace's team won, but by that reasoning, Luc Longley should be considered better than Patrick Ewing, since the Bulls consistently beat the Knicks with ease.
Horace Grant was already past his prime in 97, and Seikaly and Spencer-Fu were a pretty bad center combo from what I remember. I'm pretty sure Rony wasn't putting up 17 pts a game in Orlando. Nick Anderson was horrible ever since the 95 finals, and Dennis Scott always disappeared in teh playoffs. The only other good player for Orlando that year was Armstrong.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Seikley played quite well in Orlando for a short while. 17/9 looks right to me. Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson were both overrated though. Scott did nothing but shoot 3s. Anderson couldn't hit jack after those bricks on the line in the 95 finals. Grant was a solid player. Overall, that was a decent team. Definitely better than a Shaq-less Lakers team. Then again, Kobe led a Shaq-less Lakers team nowhere. So there's not much of a comparison.
Yeah exactly, and Penny led Orlando to 22-7 or something like that when Shaq was out in 95-96. Also, I just checked the stats, and Rony was scoring like 17 per game in the regular season in 97 but only like 6 per during the playoffs. in 97, the magic were winning like 66 percent with Penny in the lineup, and like .250 when he was down with his injury.
Penny in his heydays passed better and had better shot selection(FGP > 50%). Kobe is not even close to him in terms of making teammates better. That's the difference between Kobe and MJ.
You and the analysts may hae better encyclopedic basketball knowledge than I do, but I've watched both players play when they were at the top of their games and I can't help but think Penny was better.
