question all you want but winner doesn't mean won anything. Winner implies a winning attitude and approach as well.
I really feel sooo sorry for all the Battier haters because they obviously have no idea what basketball is about. Go watch Gerald Green dunk all day and be happy with it.
Wow, people coming out of the woodwork! That D Wade dunk over Varejao made my night. I'll leave the delusional Battier supporters to themselves and not disturb the fantasy land that they live in for now. But just remember, the sober reality is never too far away.
Thanks...I guess. I said you don't give up players like Battier unless you get certain players in return. You wanted realistic scenarios where we could get those players which is a loaded question, if they were realistic they would of been made. So basically you tried to trap me into making an unrealistic trade or settle for something less than his true worth. To avoid walking into that, I just listed the players that were worth giving up Battier for. To be honest Kwame, there is no point in doing so. I can justify it all day long, but you have made up your mind. Its really not worth the effort anymore, because you arent going to change your mind. I have argued it with Leeb, you, Bob Sacomano, whats the point anymore you seem to have your mind made up. My problem with you is I never see you post anything else other than Battier related things, why is that? And if it bothers you soooo much.... he is overated because the media in general focuses on offense, dunks, flashy passes, and other things that make the crowd oooh and ahhhh. Gay does have flashy dunks, but that doesnt make him a good basketball player. Turnovers, lack of team basketball, and decision making are all overlooked which are also things Gay does. Rudy Gay is essentially Mike James, which is another guy who will never be a winner. He has a 10 million dollar offer on the table right now from the Grizzlies, but he wants more, that in itself is just too much. Of course his current rookie contract isnt too much, but what it would cost us to get him and retain him is ridiculous. Heres some other players making ~12 million dollars: Nash, Paul, D.Williams, Tony Parker, Iggy, Billups, Al Jefferson, Manu, Deng, Butler, Bogut. Rudy Gay is not in this class of players at all. All of these players are dynamic, two way, or add some aspect of the game other than offense. 2001-02 23-59 2002-03 28-42 2003-04 50-32 2004-05 45-37 2005-06 49-33 2006-07 52-30 2007-08 55-27 2008-09 53-29 Clever inclusion of "professional", obviously discounting his college title. Battier has "won" more than he has lost. Not the best metric, but since you seem to be so keen on stats there it is. I'm going to go ahead and say anyone on a Grizzlies playoff team is a winner. If you want to go by winning titles, then no Battier is not a winner, but neither is 90% of the NBA. You and your stats. Defense is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. The best you can do as a defender is contest a shot, whether or not the offensive player makes the shot is out of the defenders control. Sure steals and blocks are great, but they also unrealiable metrics because often "true defense" is sacrificed attempting to get steals/blocks (see Ariza, Camby, Artest, etc.) All the defender can do is make it as difficult as possible on as many possessions as possible without fouling. Kobe is Kobe, in the end, he is either going to make it or he isnt. As Morey so astutely pointed out, Battier contested 100% of Kobe's shots with single coverage, which is astounding. If you watched the game, I am sure you will recall Kobe posting up Battier in the final seconds of the Laker game and Luis coming over to help, which left Artest wide open for a game changing three. This was a HUGE mistake and it illustrates the importance of defensive sets. This is an aspect of Battier's game that is VASTLY overlooked. The last team that had the balls to try solo coverage on Kobe was Toronto and they got ripped for 81 points. The ability to not have to commit a double team without getting torched by opposing elite players is invaluable , which I personally beleive is one of the single most important things Battier brings to the team. You're a smart guy Im sure you know that if you double team that means open shots for others. Since you like stats so much, lets just look at team shooting for the Lakers in some of thier last few games: vs ATL 53% vs OKC 53% vs HOU 42% vs MEM 51% vs NOR 47% vs Pho 58% So Kobe stopper? No, nobody stops Kobe. Containg his effectiveness by getting his teamates easy looks and layups? Absolutetly yes! Not sure about the Hayes reference or how it is related. Chuck had a ton more aspects of his game he could improve. Has Battier improved? I dunno, ask Morey for his metrics and we can find out. You can question whatever you want, but you are asking the wrong questions. They make perfect sense. Asking Williams about his offensive game, asking Sabathia about his offensive game, asking Battier about his offensive game....they are all defensive players, it makes no sense to focus on thier offense when that isnt thier purpose.
that´s a pity Kwame cause in this fantasy land there are people like DM, RA, coach K, Jeff v. G., etc.
How about the fact that he can actually guard kobe and kobe has admitted to it that shane defends him the best out of anyone in the league? fg% psh
Must be nice to be able to decide whether a trade scenario, which you have no control over, is realistic or not. Let's ask Morey if your trade scenarios are realistic.....
And if i told you shane is now pretty much a 90% FT shooter, up from 82% last year, and up from 74% the previous year, i forget what that's called, oh yeah, an IMPROVEMENT.....could you admit he improved without gettng a cheap shot in? Prob not. I think you're smart enough to figure out he improved in that area because he's got total control over it. He's not depending on an offense to be set up or having to go out of his abilities. And if you think that's making excuses for shane , then you're the delusional fan. He's an average person who was born with a basketball body, smarts, and a hard working attitude who turned that into a basketball career by making the most of it. Anyone with eyes can see he can't dribble well, make moves with the ball well, and he's not an athletic individual. I've only been saying that for over a year, but i guess that's not criticism in your eyes, it's me excusing his offense, i guess it can't be me just beign realistic. All i know is you're going to make it whatver helps your cause the most. And no, i won't provide you with any realistic trade scenarios, and no you can't take that as a tacit admission of defeat.
http://sportsradiointerviews.com/20...shoot-threes-and-so-far-we-have-had-success”/ audio: http://itmpodcasttrack.com/podcast_.../podcast.sportsradio610.com/kilt2/2057071.mp3
Wow dude, you know I have a life outside the forums right? Between pChem, the girlfriend and soccer I don't always have the time to come and listen to your hateration. Battier has been a proven winner since Duke, he was a big part of their national championship (but if you don't believe me ask Coach K). Battier has been a stabilizing factor for the rockets for a while, he also was part of that memphis team to make the playoffs. Yes, the grizzles made the playoffs. Battier has a horrible fg% because he plays offensive clean up for the Rockets. If Battier was given the same number of shots over a season that Tmac is, he would have a much stronger average. As for your Kobe questions, Kobe knows he can't get anything passed Battier so he brings his A-game. Kobe takes it to another level against us because he has to. As for improving his game, what do you merit as improvement? Your question is flawed because it is vague. Ultimately, Battier provides leadership, intelligence and hard nosed work ethic to an organization of young talent, he is a cancer and should be traded at once.
Excellent post. I too am sick of posters who only post about one topic, and don't even do it that well.
A "winner", to me, is someone who maxes out his talents to help his team win games as much as he can. Battier's defense, his preparation, his concentration on a possession-by-possession basis, and his leadership are all qualities I'd associate with a "winner". But there are legitimate criticisms as well, in particular that he has not put forth the same dedication towards improving his offensive skills. He seems content in trying to play his small part on offense as efficiently as possible, and in being the glue/captain on defense.
I disagree the issue is improving his offensive skills. You can't become fluid dribbling a basketball through practice alone, some guys just don't have the proper mechanics for it. It's like some big men and their shot, they can't get the right movement to create the arc or softness no matter how much they practice it. Some guys like Kevin willis, can adjust it enough for it to be decent, but even his shot looked odd. I think shane has been playing all long enough to be able to so a spin move, crossover, etc with a ball. If he's not good at it by now, then i can't see more practice helping. He's got years and years of dribbling already. He's made a big improvement on his FT shooting, but he's got the same mechanics, which tells me he's just doing a better job concentrating at the free throw line. He's got a better chance of improving mentally than physically, so i think the only legitimate criticism is him passing up shots or not looking for a different shot (which he can also hit), but that's all mental/game plan. on a side note....i noticed after a def rebound shane points to the PG to make it easier on the def rebounder to see him and fire an outlet pass.....to certain fans that's not worth much, but to a coach it makes his job easier because if shane's not doing it then it's the coach who would be screaming across the court and pointing, not just on outlet passes for for several other reasons throughout the game. Whether we like/understand it or not, having a "coach" on the floor is valuable to a team. So once again, i say fans need to find out why a player is valuable to a team, from the team's POV, not from their fan's POV.
It has nothing to do with asking tough questions. There is a difference between tough questions and stupid questions. Asking battier about his horrible field goal percentage after 8 games would be like asking Lebron how he felt about his team being on pace to go 0-82 after two games.
Until you have the intricate knowledge of a true stats geek (aka: Morey) then you are just hating. If you can prove you have full access and knowledge of Morey's array of stat measurement then I'll believe you. In the meantime I'll take it for granted that Morey, our true stats wiz, is telling the truth when he says Battier is the leader and the glue of our team. Otherwise, you are just using random stats to hate. That makes you a hater.
