I wouldn't give shane all the credit though, i think he plays a big part when it comes to leading, motivating and setting an example for this team, but i think we have guys like chuck and had deke who have similar characteristics, but I think Shane probably is more proactive about it. The way i see Shane is that like that employee who's working in an entry position, and he takes it very seriously every day of work, even when he's not getting promoted, or getting awards or recognition, he's still showing with a smile and gets to work. In any business you can't always promote everyone , sometimes you need some consistency and experience in the lower positions to keep things running smoothly. Ever ran into a cashier who's always smiling and helpful, like they have the best job in the world? Or a salesperson at a store? And they're always like that? That's Shane. And one of the things you cant describe is basically peer pressure. If you're a teammate of shane's and you see him not take a defensive play off and he's always going, it has to motivate you, you don't want to be that guy who's not keeping up with that, the guy who's going to be made an example of because you took plays off. I don't know about everyone else, but if i owned a restaurant, and i had a waiter who kept everyone else's mood up and loose, and they were a good example to the rest and others responded to him by picking up their own "game" so they wouldn't be that employee who's not, i'd consider that person pretty valuable, even if he's just the waiter. He may have maxed out his abilities as a waiter, even as an employee, but hes going to influence the cooks to be better, the chasier, the manager, maybe even the boss. Looking from the outside in, someone may say, "oh there's this other waiter, who can do the same work plus carry more plates at a time, so fire this one"....To me a couple more plates is not worth it, not when it's going to affect the rest of the "team". That's what i think Morey's stats tell him about shane and why he values him so highly.
Wait...so you're one of the biggest Battier-defenders around (at least one of the biggest I've noticed), but you think PER is much more reliable than +/-? I'm not really trying to bash you here, but that's kind of, well, backwards. Or am I getting you confused with someone else?
So you spent an entire post ranting and raving about how great Battier is in the most abstract and ambiguous terms possible, and even comparing him to all-time greats, but at the end you say that you can't answer my question. In actuality you can't back up the statement that you made that I asked you to elaborate on in relation to Battier being able to 90% of things that the rest of the NBA can't do. To top it all off, you end your post with this gem. Battier is one in a million and you don't trade guys like him? Wow, wow, wow! If you seriously believe that then I feel sorry for you because you're delusional.
Ok Kwame, I guess the national media, Morey, all the fans on this board, all the coaches, all his teamates are delusional. You are so lucky for recognizing what everyone else is missing
I'll take this as tacit admission that you cannot backup the statement you made regarding the 90% of things that the NBA can't do that Shane can.
Don't drag the coaches into this, they're not the ones who think Battier is teh greatest defender ever. According to the coaches, Battier's only been a top-10 defender in 2 of his 8 seasons in the league, and he's never been a top-5 defender. The media, on the other hand, is a different story. According to the media, or at least the media members who vote for DPOY, Battier's been a top-5 defender each of the last 3 seasons. Apparently the media rates Battier's defense much much higher than the coaches do. But hey, what do coaches know, right? They obviously never read that Battier ad, er, article in the New York Times...
It would seem that the tactics to prove that Battier isn't very good are simply to discredit any facts to the contrary. Much easier than presenting your own convincing arguments, isn't it?
I find the bold part quite funny. Really, the whole post. If he's one in a million, how come none of his teams have won squat? Yet guys like posey,bowen, and stephen jackson all have titles? You like others heap piles of praise on shane and on a playoff team on the road he played terrible. I don't or never said shane was a decent player and its ammusing how you bring up now we have a 3rd scorer in brooks,scola or ariza, but that's who shane was suppose to be. They were hoping he could become that 14ppg scorer he was as a rookie. Once they saw he didn't have it in himthey started looking for guys that could. That's where james,francis,wells,artest, as vets fit that role. Brooks with his explosion shown in college and scola frm his euroleague exploits were also added to get that guy. Just imagine if we hadn't spent those resources and just drafted a guy capable like gay or brewer to be that 3rd guy. We would have the drafts picks and salary spent on those guys. One domino led to another and since adelman has been here he has been adding directly at shanes spot.
im done getting in internet "shouting matches" about shane...but that's incorrect, they went after bonzi before Shane even played a minute of training camp. There's no indication they felt shane "failed" and that triggered the pursuit of scorers.
Bonzi Wells was brought in to be the third scorer, could never get his fat butt off the bench for JVG, and yet Battier gets blamed for not fulfilling that role.
BUT BUT BUT how come this guy has been on a championship team, how come that guy has been on a championship team? Because of Tim freaking Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce. Guess what, the Spurs won titles without Bowen and Jackson too, I guess their impact was negligble. The Celtics havent, but they look like they are well on thier way this year. Teams win rings, not players. Ask Lebron and Paul about that. The Rockets brought in Snyder, Novak, Battier and Wells all at the same time. Obviously Wells and Synder were meant to be the added offense. Is it possible they overestimated Shane's offense? Maybe, but to suggest they had buyers remorse is ridiculous. I love the bolded comment which you suggest these offensive players (specifically Wells) were brought in after Battier had supposedly failed as an offensive player, when its quite clear they came in together. Its amusing to me, especially when you tried to call me ignorant earlier. Don't worry though, I won't do the same to you. Don't know why you posted this, its just some random fact which is in no way related to what we are talking about. LOL what resources? We GAINED resources by trading Swft with Gay. We gained a starter at SF for the next four years and allowed us to address our real needs at PG and PF with financial flexibility. Flexibility which eventually allowed us to get Ron Artest, your offensive player who was shown the door after it was clear Battier was a better fit. Our second round picks coulda been spent on a more pressing need? What more pressing need, Battier or Gay doesnt change the huge holes at PG and PF. I love this bolded line, its like a last ditch effort to try and make your point. The Rockets spent Les Alexanders cash to pick up prospects which may or may not pan out. Budinger, Ariza and Taylor were brought in because McGrady is an unknown at this point, not Battier. The bottom line is, since 2006, tons of players have come and gone, alot of them offensive players, but the organization has kept Battier, and theres a reason. Rudy Gay is an overated and overpaid scrub, his value per dollar owed (next year) will be just awful. Brewer is ok, I would take him over gay, but certainly not over Battier. Rockets made the right decision.
Larsv8, u said he is 1 in a million, not me. One in a million represents special and unique greatness. Is that what you're saying about shane? Why do you and legions buy into swift contract being a anchor around the teams neck? It was a mle deal that was traded multiple times the same time the rockets had to carry reed and butlers contract that had them riding the lux tax threshold. Swift contract actually expired last yr meaning it was a final yr deal. Since it was mle, that means the rockets could traded +/- 1.75m of 5.5. That's means u can get 2-2m players for him or a 7m guy for his contract. Sometimes its better to thnik independently vs riding the wave of popular misguided opions. I didn't say they had buyers remorse, but they have continued to bring wings in. During the draft, morey did try to get gay back using battier as bait along with something else. So as irreplaceble you might think he is, he was on the block and will be. I've said many times that battier is a good player, I just don't buy into his absence means the end for the rockets both offensively and defensively. That's what I don't get. Last yr the rox were 10-5 minus shane at the beginning and their defensive numbers were great, yet u and some other will say something different. You will also say how he shut kobe down, yet kobe got his regular season avg across the board. He does a good job on some of the big time wings, but its not a solo effort, its team defense. Wesley did a great job on kobe while he was here too and he never got half the prise battier got. .
I agree with a lot of your post. I'm a big time Battier supporter, but the thing I think he brings more then anything is the defensive leadership. If you notice, he's always talking on the defensive end and is always willing to take control. He is able to calm the other guys down and also takes a lot of the pressure off because he always guards the other teams best player. On teams that have leaders like KG, Kobe, Duncan, a guy like Battier isn't AS important to have. This Houston team does not have a leader, which is why I think he is so important.
If you are seriously going to ask me this question, im going to go ahead and assume you didnt read the novel on the previous page because "Shane Battier is a special player" is pretty much the whole point of it. Why do you and your 3 stubborn "I hate Battier" friends try to argue that cap space and 5 million dollars means nothing? In 2005-2006 the Rockets were inches away from the luxury tax line with a final salary of 61.68 million. Not to mention this little gem: "The tax threshold in 2005-06 was $61.7 million dollars. In 2005-06, the New York Knicks' payroll was $124 million, putting them $74.5 million above the salary cap, and $62.3 million above the tax line, which Knicks owner James Dolan paid to the league" Your a smart guy, I am sure I don't have to remind you that payout is split among non taxed teams. When one team is paying in a whopping 62 million dollars, business sense kicks in. LOL they kept bringing every position in, thats what you do for a basketball team. You bring in players who you think have potential and then see how well they fit. You have convinced yourself that they keep bringing wings in because they are not content with Battier, which is an assumption that has no merit. It might be true, but there certainly isnt any indication given that it is. We heard one rumor from ESPN, who is rarely right btw (if I even remember right), of Memphis bad contracts + Rubio for McGrady + Battier. Surprise surprise, Memphis wanted Battier back. After googling it, the only other rumor I see is Rubio for Brooks/Battier and I don't even know what the source is. What do these trades have in common? Financial savings and Battier to memphis for what Morey obviously considers a prize in Rubio. Gay is an afterthought if anything in these trades....which are rumors. LOL, no one EVER said this. You have either ignored or your brain has distorted your perceptions of peoples arguments. It has been repeated over and over, Battier can be moved for the RIGHT player. But it sure as hell isn't Steven Jackson or Rudy Gay. Oops there you go trying to quantify it again. Does Kobe get his numbers against us ? Yes, he does. Does he do it against double teams like every other team in the league? Absolutely not. I guess you just didnt watch the game tonight where he got solo coverage the entire game until late in the fourth. I guess you just didnt bother to notice Kobe getting technicals because fouls werent being called. I guess you didnt notice keeping the Rockets out of the penalty by "Containing him", not locking him down.
