Like any stat, it needs to be evaluated within the context of the actual game, not just looking at it on the boxscore. 50 points sounds nice, but means less if a superstar hung 30 of those in garbage time against the opponent's second team. Same with +/-. If a team get's swept 4-0, never really having a consistent or any lead through the games, then even your most flawless player will have a negative number. So instead of just remembering the +/- number Shane had, think about what he did in the game. In this case I saw he played very well on both ends, so i know his +/- on the boxscore makes sense, for tonight. And i really hope you're not including me under those "battier lovers" because i have always pointed out +/- can be misleading, period.
So you completely ignore the alternative options? Like Luis Scola isn't very good, Trevor Ariza isn't very good, etc. Why must you only decided between Everyone not named Shane is really good or Shane is bad?
Because Rox traded a lotto pick for him. I will never get over that. Call me blind or whatever, I'm sick of the fact that Battier was the one left wide open in the corner watching our boys go 4 on 5 vs the Lakers. Nonetheless, I always wish him a good game every night for the team's good.
I would have been sick watching whoever it is blowing past Gay and put our bigs in a poster every time down the floor. That was a hyperbole, but Shane is not just sitting there in the corner waiting for the pass. For all your Shane haters, I encourage you to spend a game, or half a game or even one quarter, and focus your attention entirely on Shane. You will see a lot of things that would otherwise go unnoticed, and maybe you will get a better appreciation about what he brings to the table, every single night.
His defense and intangibles doesn't make up for the massive black hole on the offensive end. I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it.
If he was really good on both ends then he wouldn't be a role player. Some role guys are only good on one side, some are ok on each side. they're all going to have some empty areas to their game, some just have more on one end. Gay is technically still a role guy. He's not great offensively, just good, he's not great or good defensively, just ok. Shane is excellent defensively and not very good offensively. Their talents are just distributed differently and if we add up all their parts it still sums up to one role player. the issue here is we've needed scoring, but that shouldn't mean we don't need defense, or should give up one for the other. We'd have a good distribution of each the last two years if it wasn't for injuries. That's the only reason why any player who can't score is an issue, because of injuries to our top scorers. If Yao and shane/chuck went down we'd have people claiming Scola was a bum and his scoring doesn't make up for the massive black hole on defense.
I know it's an opinion, but a "massive black hole on the offensive end" is kind of too extreme. Those open corner 3's do mean something.
I just went back through the play-by-plays on espn.com for each game of that series (I was bored). Kobe was on the court for 232 of Artest's 267 total minutes played, and 242 of Battier's 259 total minutes played. So Kobe was on the court for a slightly higher percentage of Battier's minutes than Artest's, but that difference is nowhere near big enough to account for the difference between their +/-.
I've said this before as well. The logic of the Battier supporters is so circular that the room starts spinning. For example, they love to give him credit for those 45, 49, and 50 win Memphis teams, but those same people simultaneously absolve him of any blame for Memphis's 0 and 12 playoff record. Then you have those who are uncritical and blind supporters no matter what. Has a guy like RV6 ever said anything remotely critical of Shane? I've never understood the Battier cult and the hero worship surrounding someone who has done so little as an NBA player.
I think the first three games might be misleading. Battier is most effective when guarding the opponents best player. I am pretty sure i saw Ariza guarding Roy a lot on those 2 games. I dont know why Ariza was guarding Roy considering he was getting destroyed. Webster and Rudy just run around trying to get open to shoot three's.
Ou mean like Tayshaun Prince? What about Josh Howard? John Salmons? Ronnie Brewer? I could go on and on, but its the same thing in that when the compensation dictates more and its nothing wrong with being well rounded. That's why the rockets couldn't win when tracy and yao were playing at a high level. They had too many specialist that couldn't breathe unless yao or tracy helped them. Bobby Joe, Mario,Sam,Maxwell, Horry were all role players. In truth every player is a role player, its just every player has a different role. Some guys score, some create and score, some rebound, that's their role. You very rarely hear me say anything about chuck because he squeezes the most out of what he has. I dog battier because I think people give him a pass because he's well spoken and well like but are scared to be critical when he's a no show in the game. I understand and do believe there are intangible things on the court, but I also believe when you're the 2nd drafted player on the squad and the 3 highest paid, if you want to be a leader, you have to step up in crucial times and games. That's what leadership is about in those closing minutes or that closing game. Game 7 last yr and every game on the road he was a no show. Like I've said, I don't root against the guy because he's on the rockets, I just don't buy into the battier for life propaganda some people are selling.He's hasn't helped bring the rockets any closer to a title than david wesley.
Honestly, what is their to be critical about? He rarely makes stupid plays, he knows his limitations, he's one of the better defensive players in the league, and he works his ass off every moment he's in the game. Saying he can't put the ball on the floor or he can't create his own offense isn't really a critique worth mentioning, because everybody and their mother is already aware of that including Shane. And we (as well as every coach who ever had him) like him despite those limitations, because of everything else he does on the floor and in the locker room. Some people don't judge a player solely on their ability to score baskets going 1-on-1.
