kim you think kobe is still consistently a good defender? i honestly haven't watched a whole lakers game unless they play us, but he looked nothing but average defensively against us. he certainly has the athleticism and skills to be a lock-down defender(just like t-mac) but is it on a regular basis?
I don't think Kobe is as consistent as he has been because he plays harder on offense. But I think come playoff time, Kobe is damn good. He has optimum athleticism, strength, and lateral movement. He has great anticipation too. I think Battier has better team D awareness, but Kobe's 1 on 1 awareness is amazing. Battier's ain't shabby, but he's just not quick enough.
1. I think Battier has more footspeed than Bowen nowadays, given Bruce's age. 2. I agree Shane isn't the perfect defender. He can get beat off the dribble by quicker players like Wade. He also doesn't make like as uncomfortable on his assignment as, say, Artest. All he does is stay disciplined and smart, often either giving the opponent space to shoot a contested J or direct guys who can beat him into a help defender. He isn't going to shut everyone down, but no one can when they are defending everyone from Wade to Nowitzki. He simply gives up the lowest % shot, given the situation. It's kind of intersting to watch Battier playing man-D... a lot of opposing players have had very comfortable sub 40% shooting nights. He's kind of the hoops equivalent of a Tom Glavine or Chien-Ming Wang... guys who allow you to put the ball in play and have comfortable 0-4 nights. 3. I think the Rockets really need someone who is an above-average defender on smaller guards, be it PG or SG. Rafer isn't as terrible as people think, but he is average at best. He and Head are also both too damn skinny. Shane takes the Gordon/Wade duty as well as any 6'9'' forward can, but that's not his natural position... TMac can play very good D when he wants to, but he's bigger like Shane and not perfectly suited for small guard duty, either. An Earl Watson type would really come in handy.
very good points, carl, and i totally agree with you. battier certainly isn't gifted enough athletically to be the standout of all elite wing defenders but he's probably the smartest and most versatile and that are his real strengths. as you would expect from an average athlete who is 6'9" he gets beat here and then by the elite swing men just like kim said. but he excels at forcing opponents into contested shots and he's probably the best help defender of all good wing defenders. if he was still in memphis shane probably should not be mentioned. but because he plays for the rockets now who are arguably the best defensive team in the league he should get extra credits for that making him a real candidate. but given the american media, shane probably won't be mentioned just like jvg won't be the coach of the year and t-mac won't be in the top-5 mvp candidates. it's a good thing, though. it will keep the team motivated and a lot of people will have to eat crow when the rockets make some noise.
I don't see it happening. Merit aside, voters follow hype more than substance a lot of the time. I remember the year where Mario Elie was a legit stopper at the 2 and 3, taking on the best and excelling. He got no attention whatsoever from the national media and nearly no votes. I won't go so far as to say that he was robbed of DPOY, but he should have been in the running and wasn't at all. My guess is the same thing well happen to Shane. Evan
http://www.82games.com/0607/06DEN17D.HTM Camby isn't really make that big a impact defensively for Denver. They give up more points per possession with him on than with him off. He's a good rebounder and shot blocker, but he really doesn't make a bad defensive team any better when he's out there.
Its sad how Shane is such a good defensive player but doesn't get any recognition. Getting charges called on the guy running into you isn't a stat. Neither is player opponent FG %. Thats why Shane isn't regarded as a great defensive player. People mostly look at stats like blocks steals and rebounds. Thats why he isn't even included once in this list. http://www.nba.com/features/defense_070413.html
That's not a fair stat. Camby plays with the starters against others starters. Denver's best 5 man lineups are with Camby. He rebounds defensively better than any other Nugget. He blocks shots better than any other Nugget. He guards his man well too. The stat is misleading because it would intimate that Denver is a better defensive team without Camby, and that's just not true. Camby is one of the best big men defenders in the entire league. He's in the same defensive category as KG and Tim Duncan.
his defense is entirely overrated. I can name 10 guys better than that who aren't on your list. Starting with Cuttino Mobley. Do you honestly believe Ginobody's body will be able to play defense like Cat at equal age? ginobody is hands down the most overrated player in the league for comments like yours.
Dude, ever since Ginobili entered the league, you've been saying Cat is better. Cat has good foot speed, but doesn't max out defensively like he used to b/c the Clippers team defense is so bad and disheartening. I spend 6 hours going through the Spurs Jazz game last week. Ginobili absolutely dominated on offense and defense...he created transition opportunities with his quick hands and finished them coast to coast. I love you HP, but you are wrong here. I invite you to spend an evening with me and meticulously go through Ginobili game tape and if you still believe then that he is overrated, then we'll agree to disagree. I honestly don't even know if Ginobili is overrated because I've stopped paying too much attention to the media the last year. All I watch is film, in slow motion, over and over again. My opinions are based solely on film and I've been consistent, insightful, and accurate with my judgment the vast majority of the time. Ginobili is a great player from what I've studied. And it's accurate to say you've always been criticizing Ginobili...we've both been here a long time and I remember it all. Maybe you were right on him 4 years ago, but I beg you to watch the Spurs Jazz game and tell me he isn't great on offense and defense. I was watching that game purely for Rockets scouting. I don't bring preconceived opinions into my scouting sessions. I just watch, document, and analyze. You're just wrong about Ginobili.
And HP, other than you're beloved Mobley (who I like), you can name 10 better wing defenders (non PG's) than these guys? Ron Artest Shane Battier Raja Bell Kobe Bryant Bruce Bowen Manu Ginobili Josh Howard Shawn Marion Tayshaun Prince I was making a comparison list for Shane Battier, because I believe Battier is a really good wing defender, among the best. So who would you add to the creme de la creme? Cuttino and maybe Joe Johnson? Q Rich? Seriously? Ginobili is worse than 10 players in addition that list?
overall, Ginobody is better than Mobley ever was. But I do not think he is better at defense than Cat was at equal age. Ginobody takes too many chances...he's a gambling defender. also, Cat played defense for 40mpg. Gino has the advantage of only having to play defense for 28mpg. There's a difference. Ginobody looks great against certain teams--Pho for instance. But he is not great against all teams. That's why he is not a great player. That is why he is overrated by people like you who seem to only analyze the games where he has the advantage. I mean, you're making a big deal about a game where he's playing against Fisher and Giricek and Harpring. Ginobody is better than I ever thought he'd be when he came into the league. He has reached star status. I was wrong. But he is not a GREAT player, that is overrating him. btw: to be regarded as having a star career, he'll need to hope his body doesn't break down like what happened to Eddie Jones.
I know he's a combo guard, but Hinrich is a better defender than Ginobli, Kobe (now), and close to Howard/Prince.
I said 10 wing defenders better than Ginobody, not better than all those guys. I mean, hell, Juaquin Hawkins was a better defender in his one yr. Point being, there are a lot of wing defender specialists that not too many people know unless you root for that team. Let me try though: Hughes Kirilenko Josh Smith (future 1st teamer) Brewer Pietrus Mobley Posey Patterson Deng McGrady I could continue, but these guys came to mind. Iguodala is getting pretty good, too.
