I agree that Gill is a great defender (steals), but his shot has become more than erratic (perhaps because of injuries?). A 33 % field-goal percentage is not really great. So he would be a good replacement for Anderson as long as he doesn't shoot the ball much.
You know the funny thing is that the weakness in the current Rocket team are forcing Shandon out of his game. One weakness is that our frontline does not rebound that well. Our guards are always bailing the front line out, leaving no one to lead the break. The second problem is that Shandon should be the starting 2. Since Walt has proven again and again that he is no longer a starter in the league, Rudy has to start Shandon at the 3, which is a bad matchup for him every other game. With the way things have gone, I would not blame Shandon for bolting. The only problem I have with losing Shandon is that he is exactly the type of role player that championship teams need. I think Rudy sees it too. ------------------
TPL and Haven, If TPL is right, then Shandon is either psyching himself out (as you say) or not in the right system (like Shandon says). If Haven is also right (not "much innate ability"), then eliminating all the psyching out in the world still gets us midrange bricks and losey handles, no matter how much he practices. If verse is right, the man simply thinks too much of his abilities and needs to resolve himself as a bench player whose hustle really showed up in the Utah stats for really only one year. 44% his 3rd at Utah is what we are getting. If Shandon is Right, what do we get? If Shandon is right, and the system is not suited for him, then he is really pigeonholing himself more than any of us. Shandon? what system is right if the last two you played for are not. He says he needs uptempo. How is TPL's "psyching out" philosophy going to matter, if Shandon just feels he needs to score in transition, secondary breaks when the defense isn't set, and backdoor cuts when the d is set. That is like very limited except in the very best of transition teams. We get an impatient middle class role player for the bench Shandon saying he needs uptempo, imo, is really telling. To me, it means he has resolved to himself that he can't play much half court. No matter how much uptempo Francis and Rudy delivers for us fans, the game still remains more than 70% half court. That is when we need Shandon the shooter and slasher and low post overpowerer. Yet, where did this Shandon the strong low post guy come from anyhow...Shandon delivering again Del Negro and Hersey Hawkins in the playoffs?? mismatches?? I don't know. It is not like I ever watched much Utah....But I have seen plenty of Shandon in my day. Sure he can overpower a mismatch, but better than the next guy? I don't know about that. Shandon is no Michael Dickerson I can't help be think Shandon is just overrating himself on offense. At least, I really expected more and searched for more for the past 2 years. But now, the two years are up. Times up, Shandon. You are not Michael Dickerson, and we are not changing the offense to suit you. If you want to remain patient for our uptempo to get better with a better front court, then stay for solid career bench pay of 6 yrs at middle class...and quit expecting more touches and system designs for you. Otherwise, you overrate yourself. Lastly TPL yeah, count me as one who doesn't think an NBA gaurd who can't dribble or shoot doesn't practice his weaknesses enough, now or in the past. You know watching pre-games shootarounds is not the same as watching Reggie Miller and Larry Bird show up 3-5 hours ahead of everyone else, to shoot 200+ shots. That is not INNATE ability (relatively speaking), that is sheer desire to perfect yourself and prepare yourself. The dribbling thing is just too late, imo. When I say he doesn't practice dribbling enough, I also mean he must have never done it. Can he learn now with any amount of dribbling drills...I don't know...especially given the "psyche" factor. Shandon is surely a hard worker and business man when it comes to showing up for work...but, is that ever enough to improve your own personal deficiencies? One comparison to hard working and improvement is Shandon vs Eddie Jones. Jones came in as a superior defensive stud from Temple to Shandon. He likewise did not have a great offensive game. He likewise was required to spot up early on, and feed off of others. Now compare Eddie Jones' offensive game to Shandon's. Was that really a systemic difference of choice of offenses. I don't think so.
I think Shandon just isn't a "game" shooter. He can hit shots in practice, but when it comes to pressured shots in game action, he just can't hit that shot on a consistent basis, and I don't think any amount of practice is ever going to change that. I don't think Shandon practices his dribbling, and that really hurts this team's fast break.Most teams have at least 3 guys who can start the fast break, but we really only have 2. Shandon just looks uncomfortable handling the ball. I have changed my mind about his value because of this. This team's offense needs everyone to be able to shoot and handle the ball, and Shandon doesn't fit any of those requirements. It probably would be better to draft a 3, or go after an Eddie Robinson who wouldn't have gripes about his role in the offensive system, and has the length and ability to thrive in the system if Rudy goes small. I think you can probably get a player of his caliber in the draft, but I don't know if he'd be ready to step in and start, like Shandon. I think Shane Battier could handle the pressure. I agree with what you're saying too. Practice will only improve your overall game so much. Perhaps Shandon's ability has peaked..... Still, I think some people underestimate and overlook the little things he does on the court that makes this team successful. ------------------ [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited April 07, 2001).] [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited April 07, 2001).]
If I were Shandon, I'd go somewhere else. I mean he's had some problems in his personal life, along with not performing on the court which he doesn't think is his fault. People bash his play all season. If I were in his shoes, I'd want to start fresh somewhere else. I mean think about how depressing this season must be for him. Nothing has seemed to go right, and he probably doesn't seem that appreciated here. If I had a bad year with my job and life, I'd want to go to a place where someone really wanted me. You know there's going to be teams that will try to court SA and make him feel wanted, a lot more wanted then he'll feel from here. I think he needs a fresh start somewhere else.
The ONLY team I see that might have some interest in Shandon would be the Lakers. I'm assuming that Shandon would want to go to a good team. Rider has been a failed experiment, and that team needs some defense. I think he would fit very well into Jackson's offense too. They would probably move Bryant to the 3. I'm sure if the Rockets did something with Shandon, it would be through sign and trade, because they want to reward him for the paycut and loyalty. Maybe we could swing a deal for Rick Fox. I'd be pretty happy with that scenario. He'd definitely bring more offensively than Shandon did, and is decent on the defensive end. Anybody else like this trade? ------------------
TPL, would the lakers want Shandn? i mean, yeah, i believe they'd take him, but, only in the same role which i have outlined for him at houston: Stacey Augmon. one of the TOP priorities for playing in a triangle offense is the need to take and hit the open shot. one man who cannot shoot effectively breaks down the triangle - ESPECIALLY if it is a guard. d rodman got away with not being able to shoot because he was consistently positioned within the paint. d rod could hit a 6 footer. d rod could rebound like no tomorrow. d rod was an EXTREMELY UNDERRATED passer. really, he's the only "exception" i can think of to the rule. everyone else that i can recall on the tex winters squads have been competent shooters - at least the ones that got significant playing time. so if they were to look at shandn - strictly as a bench reserve, i don't believe they'd fork over major dollars. would i take rick fox? hell yea. just to look @ his wife ! would los angeles trade a streaky shooter, average defender, team player for a poor, poor shooter, slightly above average defender and terrible dribbler? who knows. my name ain't jerry or phil. but i wouldn't. i'm telling you, there are not many teams out there that would really take on shandn anderson as their STARTING 2 guard. really, i cannot think of ONE. he is a bench player who has peaked out. problem is, i don't think he knows it. ------------------ Lt. Roastabotch reporting for duty! [This message has been edited by verse (edited April 07, 2001).]
If Shanon wants more money, then he'd better start showing that he deserves it. We are overpaying him for the moment, and giving him a starting role which he doesn't deserve. Sure, the first year wasn't too bad, but Mr Anderson, where have you disappeared to this season. Oh wait a minute, it's all a simple X-Files theory. Shanon got abducted by aliens who got so pumped up with Rocket ball that they wanted to find out more, so they had a Shanon clone made and sent it back to us, only thing is, they forgot to clone the defence and offence part of his basketball brain. Ok, everyone start bowing to me for solving the mystery. ------------------ Do not harm little children!
I think that Shandon's D is very overrated. I also think that he is absolutely lost on the break. He can sometimes get to the hole in a set offense, but we already have Cat not to mention Franchise and KT (different styles, I know, but both effective in getting to the basket). I can't see any compelling reason to keep him. Personally, I'd like either more size or better ball handling at the position, preferably the former. ------------------
HALLELUJAH nyrocket!!!! i have said that shandn's d is overrated many, many times on this board. is he terrible? no. but he's no where near the stud that some people delusionally believe he is. IMO, he is (and i'm being generous) slightly above average. keep in mind, though, that the average nba player's defense is downright terrible. so he's...well you get the picture. either way, for what he brings to both sides of the court, i'd just as soon see him leave. if we could keep him, fine, ride the pine. but if he's going to sulk or complain or turn into a whiny b**** (that one's for you TheFreak) or if any of those are a possibility i would not even want to see him on the pine. so far, he hasn't become a cancer on the team vocally. however, he is a cancer on the team offensively. what the hell do you want with a guy who can only score if he's open on a fast break? you might as well have one of those two white boys from the sprite/nba "you can't hold me" commercials on the team. there just as useful. and i think one of the commercials was with them against the jazz. ------------------ Lt. Roastabotch reporting for duty! [This message has been edited by verse (edited April 07, 2001).]
Shandon has "disappeared" since he was moved to the small forward position. As a two guard he does play very good defense, he does post up well, and he doesn't seem as bothered on his shots. I think we should either let him go to a team that would play him at the two guard spot, or start him as the two and Cat as the three. Of course the other team is likely to cover him with their small forward still, so it won't help his offense. What this would do is reduce the number of defensive liabilities on the team. Instead of 5 holes, we would have only 4. Maybe Cat could even be helped by this, using his speed to frustrate small forwards. He has to play them when we go with three guards anyway. ------------------ "Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong" -- Dennis Miller
Hydra, Surprisingly enough, it is not really the case that Shandon is guarded by the SF or Shandon always guards the best SG/SF. Cuttino and Vince Carter guard each other Cuttino and Sprewell guard each other Cuttino and Finley guard each other I have no explanation for this unless Rudy prefers Shandon as help defense against one-on-one studs. Does anyone remember other defensive match-ups that where billed as Shandon, but it turned out to be Cuttino's assignment? Also, Kobe guards Francis and has never guarded Shandon.
Shandon's the type of player that most people would like to have on their team, but that nobody is going to pay too much for. Verse and rich: Most people think Shandon's D is spectacular because it is. He breaks down the passing lanes, never gives up easy baskets, and is very difficult to fool. His body is large enough to prevent other guards from overpowering him. He's probably oen of the top 5 SG defenders in the NBA. His shot isn't spectacular... but give credit where it's due. part of the reason you may not see Anderson's D in action is because it's so team oriented. Anderson does things remarkably well, like switching men, going around screens, and helping out. That isn't going to be apparent in the box score. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
HeyP, Wouldn't: Cuttino/Vince = Shandon/Mo Pete Cuttino/Spree = Shandon/Houston Cuttino/Finley = Shandon/Nowitzky Steve/Kobe = Shandon/Rick Fox It still seems that Shandon ends up playing against much taller players. ------------------ "Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong" -- Dennis Miller
Shandon.......Please Please Please leave. Good Ridance, His defense is WAYYYYYY overrated. He doesn't fit our style of basketball. PLEASE GO. ------------------ Baseball is wrong, a man with four balls can't walk.
Hydra, I feel like I'm discussing theory rather than practice with you. Your line-ups didn't happen except of course Houston who is a tall SG, because the other team has to match up with us. They usually have the shooting guard in there to put on Shandon, or a 3rd guard. For instance, Nitwitz and Howard will play the C/PF spots. Plus, Mobley is the one who is more often guarded by taller players, especially if the SF is a good defender. In any event, the defense never puts their best backcourt defender on Shandon, and Shandon doesn't exclusively guard the best backcourt player; he and Mobley share that assignment from what we actually see in games. Hydra, forget the box scores as indications of what the matchups are. The other team puts their best backcourt player on Mobley, the taller the better. As I recall now, Payton guarded Mobley more than he guarded Francis in the most recent contests. Even Phil Jackson took Kobe off Francis when we beat LA in January?? Kobe and Mobley where guarding each other, surprisingly enough. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 09, 2001).]
Where did I go wrong????? Where oh where did everyone (well verse has been saying it for a while so that leaves him out) get this "Shandon for beer fart pratice" attitude????? Shandon wanted out of Utah so he could play for a team that would give him: 1. More market exposure. 2. More money. 3. A position that would use him to the best of his ability. 4. A working relationship with a coach. What he got was: 1. A larger sports market (by about 400%) than Utah ever thought of of being. 2. Not the big payday he wanted but is promised the day will come. He believes Rocket management. They will come through.CD is trustworthy. 3. Starters minutes in two years at two positions. 4. Rudy does what he says. He is trustworthy. He is trusted by Shandon. If there is grumbling, it may be a pre-negotiation phase. Who knows? But I will say this: If Shandon wants to go anywhere, and will not accept the agred-upon role he has on this team, or his agent(more than likely the culprit) starts some pre-haggle fires that are a little too loud or too bright .... the Rockets will give him what he apparently is asking for and trade him. They don't want to, but they will if that's what he wants. I can't help but think that if a trade happened the most surprised guy in the bunch would be Shandon himself. ------------------
oeilpere, Shandon agreed to play with Francis, Pippen, Barkley and Dream. What did he get? Francis, Walt, Kenny, Rogers for a large part of one year, and Francis, Mobley, Kenny/Collier, Mo' for a large part of another year. You can't fault the guy for saying he didn't get what he wanted, that's for sure. My gut feeling is Shandon chose us for playoff contention potential vs Utah. He left for a better team. My gut feeling is he wants to do it again.
So who is guarding Shandon, if not the people I mentioned? ------------------ "Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong" -- Dennis Miller
Hey Oeilpere, you say "if Shandon doesn't accept the agreed-upon role he has on this team." What exactly is the agreed-upon role? It's always been agreed that Shandon would start. Do the Rockets want this to continue? I'd like to know more about what Rudy, CD, and Shandon himself see as his role with the team now. ------------------
