Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

I don't know why it matters what Morey demands. He gets his up and coming PG by trading Wall + picks ASAP after acquiring them. We're offering him what he wants, but in 6-10 months rather than now. That's a minor blow given Wall would easily match Simmons' on-court impact late in a playoff series, and he is certainly good enough to keep them in homecourt contention being 2nd/3rd scorer to Embiid/Tobias. That's plenty of scoring.

Morey's other options:

- Fine Simmons forever, and watch his value drop into oblivion.
- Trade Simmons to his preferred destination at a lesser or equal price.

Trading Simmons wherever is no longer an option, that's the whole message when someone says they won't report to camp. That's a message to teams he doesn't want to join too.

I really think if Stone speaks to Klutch, they can come up with something that Morey will be resigned to accepting.

 

Let me be clear: Simmons is horrendous.

I'm just sure that if we give up two loosely protected firsts for Simmons and Maxey, we will recoup more than two loosely protected firsts for them 6-12 months later. We have that kind of time to flip them, and Simmons is no more toxic than Wall, and Maxey may turn out to be worth more than a first.

There are dumb teams like the Bulls, Knicks, Kings, Spurs, etc who can be duped into believing Simmons is worth most if not all of his salary at the deadline. We can pre-agree his destination with Klutch anyway. He won't play a playoff game here so his biggest weakness won't be on display, he will be his regular self in regular season.

 

I beg to differ there.

He's an elite defender at 1-5....the possessor of insane ball handling skills for a guy his size...
Consider his ability to work inside at will...with his ability to finish...and those great passing skills.
Again, have him initiate deeper...some off the wing.
Not only does all this offset his foul shooting, but it changes the dynamic/equation to where it's not as simple as fouling him out top.

 

Time to inundate Morey's twitter with John Wall highlights.

 

mane, Wall and Embiid pairing can finally bring them the championship!
they definitely need someone to feed embiid in the post

 

so basically he can play 5 and embiid was just not a good fit for him?

 

Yeah, I don't know why Rockets fans would want Simmons at this point. Before our great haul in the draft, maybe I would think trading Wall for Simmons might be worthy it. Not anymore. Wall is a dead weight for sure. But Simmons is worse than a dead weight. We want a good group of young players to grow, not a me-only guy in our locker room.

 

I would say Id take him straight up for wall but that contract he has is insane

 

Yeah I agree to all of that he can defend 1 - 5, I just see him being more successful at 4 and 5 offensively. I dont think he should be a point guard he can be a point foward at times. I think he should be a roll man off of a pick and roll and we could run cuts for him to the basket. Listen he does things well but lets not act like he doesnt have a shooting issue and he tends to disapear at times and when you're a star in the playoffs they are gonna need you to score at some point and thats his issue. Will he get better and more confident in the playoffs? Your guess is as good as mine. He is only 24 but we've been hearing the Im gonna shoot speech for 4 years now so really its up in the air. Also in the playoffs as a star at some point you're gonna have to make clutch free throws and it will cost you if you cant. Giannis did it even though he is not that good at it. I would just use him like the Bucks use Giannis.

 

Brilliant! After watching that I was asking myself do we really want to trade John Wall? Lol--nice!!!

 

I don't think Simmons is dead weight at all. The only reason some are starting to develop this perception of him is because Morey has decided to ask for king's ransom in order to pry Simmons from him. He is asking for a good player plus good picks or another superstar player. He is attempting to trade Simmons as if he was a superstar, when in reality he is a very good player that is still an All Star, still has all defensive potential, can run a team very well, and also can still score during the regular season (he isn't necessarily Ben Wallace either on offense).

If Morey for some stupid reason gave us Simmons for Wall (assuming a pick or two, protected), that would be a damn good haul for the Rockets and we could certainly flip Simmons no doubt.

I agree with you, I don't necessarily want Simmons on this team, I'm not a fan of his game either, but to pretend that he doesn't have value in this league, even at his current contract, that's just wrong. If Indiana offered Brogdon + a pick for Simmons, that definitely shows he has value. We can't underrate the guy either despite his shortcomings.

 

Absolutely.

 

It would be a shrewd move by Stone (assuming everyone's on the same page) to buy low on Big Ben...I know some might say it's incongruent with our timeline, but he IS only 24... and it's the kind of opportunity we should be looking at even now.

Yes, of course I'd trade Wall in this deal, but more realistically see CW going out for him.

 

Fair point. More realistic, IMO, to to help facilitate and come out with a W.

I doth thinketh DM the erstwhile GM, may we’ll have overplayed his hand on this one.

 

Both Wall and Simmons are dead weight because they are making franchise player level money but nobody believe that they can carry a franchise. This is why Morey is having a hard time trading him. If I traded Wall for him straight up, my only goal would be to get rid of Wall's contract. I'd trade Simmons immediately for whatever assets I could get. Or better yet, I'd try to find a third team to take Simmons in the trade.

 

A cheeky Wall/Gordon for Simmons offer from Stone to Morey would be great, but I suspect Morey would never do that trade out of spite.

 

in…spite of a 25 or so mil difference???

 

Simmons has value but there is no market where this value can be traded. Know your customers. Your customers are the other 29 GMs. If a GM gives-up major assets for Simmons and he pulls-off another primadona act on you you're getting fired, full-stop. No GM would put their job on the line like that for a guy with such weird moods and weak psyche.

The idea of buying low, taking advantage of the pressure on Morey, is not a bad one. Basically, get him for our vets (Wall or EG/House/Augustin) and try to rehabilitate his value character-wise, then get him to his California dream destination. We don't risk much. I like it.

 

I love how you put it. And I agree. Simmons' real value is what the market (other 29 teams) dictates.