Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

Daryl just wanted to trade away picks that don't help the team? Cmon how can we keep rewriting history. The moves he made gave him 0 flexiblity to do more, he had to ignore or trade away assets or vehicles to get better that he has touted and bragged about in importance when at the cap....and the moves we made only helped the owner...more likely then Daryl making his life mission and happiness to give the owner more cash in his pocket he was just following the new owners mandate of getting under the tax

This refusal to spend money became farcical once Alexander sold the team to Tilman Fertitta in 2017. Fertitta spent so much money ($2.2 billion) to purchase the Rockets that he may not have had the liquidity to go into the red to build a title contender. Houston was a laughingstock around the league for the amount of juggling it had to do to stay under the tax. The best example came at the trade deadline last season, when Morey used a future first-round pick to shed the salaries of Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss. There was no basketball reason for the move. It was just done to cut costs. It’s not that Knight and Chriss would have helped the Rockets. But there were certainly a lot of better things that Morey could have used that pick for.
​

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/10/16/21519593/daryl-morey-houston-rockets-luxury-tax-resign

 

I don't think so at all. Morey let it be known he has felt Harden to be bet of all time, the sentiment has been seen of how much he wanted to do Harden right, but why did he leave? one franchise says all the assets you accumulated, you're going to have to ignore or trade to get under the tax. then you better be a good company man shut up and listen and say we're going all in....also you have to let my 24 year old kid follow you and run decisions through him.

Or philly...here, just do what you can to win. I'll take care of my own child, i'll pay tax, you just try to win.


That was the difference between two situations, not even the players. Imagine if you got hired for a high level position, many options, and the owner at first starts implememtning a budget that is not on Par with the rest of the title contenders then also says here train my kid for your job.

Like I've said before, go find another owner in any nba team that plasters his face more prominently then players on the team, that take the mike after a playoff loss where they spent the season cutting cost and demands the players do better, or goes public and lies about a coaches contract and gets called out. This isn't landrys, this is the NBA.Tilman should shut up and listen.

 

That Brogdon offer that leaked first a month ago is looking very tasty all of a sudden… Should’ve taken it.

 

1. I made 97/100 FT one time and used to make 7/10 3PT on my goal shooting like he did. Should I have joined the Rockets? I sucked BTW. Dwert used to make a good clip of FTs in practice. What did he do in the game again? Go watch and listen to Steve Nash to understand why its not a mental block. Bad form or flaws translate into bad execution because in game situations you are not having the ball fed to you in the same place over and over when you are rested. You watch a video with a few shots. You can go back and watch the games to get a lot more DEFINITIVE data. Did you see him taking or making 3s or other jumpers? How about FTs? This isn't a mental block, it's not an accident, and it's not a figment of our imagination. He is an efficient player because he AVOIDS what he is supposed to do. That is pretty smart. You have seen him make them in practice, have you also watched him miss them? Do your really think he is so stupid to be too shy to take the shot? He has taken them and when he does he misses (which I also did BADLY in the few real games). Why does Harden have the mix of layups, 3s, and FTs? Is that an accident or by design?

2. Again you miss the point. It's not a $37M bet, its at least $147M bet but really its much larger than that because of what you do to the team as a whole with the decisions you make. The Rockets could ignore Ryno at $18M and pretend he didn't exist. It still hurt them greatly. You cannot disappear your PG making $37M. You have never taken any serious reflection to saying a PG can instead be a wing. If Simmons could shoot he has all the tools to be a top tier PG. If he could shoot he COULD be a wing. Nobody WOULD play him at wing. He CAN'T shoot. Nobody is saying give up on him but right now the choice is pay him $147M or give up on him. I and most other teams are passing. If you said take a chance on him at $8M no one would be having this conversation. A player AND their contract are inseparable.

3. The player comparisons are useless because they don't match and they don't tie to the central point (can't shoot so can't fill role). Gobert is an elite rim protector (very rare), Green is an elite Swiss Army Knife (rare and irreplaceable to GSW). I'll give you a real comparison, Durant. Durant has the movements he does because he had a growth spurt if I recall but used to play PG. He was so damn athletic and then had that size but also had the jumper and didn't just rely on layups and dunks. In the pros naturally his game fit perfectly into the wing role but he could and does play PG in games. Simmons to me seems like that without the jumper. Simmons was just so great at everything else that until the pros having a shot didn't matter so he didn't use it. Jordan had to drastically improve his jumper because he got murdered in the paint. Same with Olajuwon. This is a natural path for most players and definitely stars but Simmons hasn't improved. I think his height plays a role. Let's look at another comparison for other reasons. Christian Wood same age and close physical traits. Better stats but not as good a defender. Contract close to a third the size of Simmons. Everybody wants that contract with that player. Simmons not so much.

4. Perception...we saw Simmons great and hyped at LSU. He gets drafted and sits out a year. He comes out of the box looking like he did at LSU putting up the same stats and is contributing immediately with Embiid and Sixers are successful. Its a feel good story, he splits ROY (omen). In retrospect it just FEELS like that initial feel good hype never left him. ROY, All Star, All NBA are popularity contests. His D because of his size and athleticism and awareness is legit elite all world. If not for the bigs he could win DPOY and deserve it some year. Same traits play into his PG skills also very good with passing instinct. The problem is he just disappears in games because he doesn't shoot and he gets a lot of garbage stuff. That's a PF/C not a PG. I railed on Brodie for years that if he takes 15 shots or less his teams win because he will never take JUST 15 shots. He burns his teams. Its quite evident that for the reverse reason Simmons does the same thing. Russ mistakenly thinks he can shoot like everybody else, he can't but again better than Simmons. If Simmons could shoot I am convinced he would take over 15 shots instead of 10 or 11 and would average over 20 points. More importantly the game would be much easier for his teammates, ie Embiid. I see him fight through a lot of doubles.

5. Philly is the most ideal team for Simmons. With his size and a monster like Embiid they could kill everybody in a 2 man PnR but they collapse on Embiid instead. Butler constantly complained about space. Simmons lives in the paint. This isn't new, this isn't some secret. Go look at his stats on 3PTA/G, 3PT%, FT% and shot charts. CAREER 90% of baskets within 10 feet, 60% layup or dunk, 5 of 34 3PTs (didn't make 1 until year before last). No one else's stats that play that position look this way. Why is Morey trying to trade this guy if this is salvageable? Ainge didn't want to trade Rondo for a long time and he is a better shooter than Simmons, won a chip with him. Think about that. Simmons wants out because his brand is tanking and has to hope a new start buys him more time. No **** he wants to go to GSW. Wiggins got about a season of reprieve and he can shoot. Nobody wanted this for Simmons. It's not hyperbolic, it's not a narrative, it just is.

 

Lots of owners dont wanna spend for the lux tax its the GM's job to handle that limitation. OKC is an example of this, same limitation as Morey but they're able to double asset stock instead of losing them.

Going into the red would be nice but shouldnt be a requirement given how many teams dont pay lux tax as well. Its up to GM to navigate that pricess thats why he was hired.

 

philly and embiid is not an ideal team for simmons. Embiid is a guy who can get the high post, low post, he can dshoot and he can do everything but hes not just a catch and finish big, you take away what makes him elite if thats what it is. So Embiid is not a good fit for simmons.

And in one situation you write hes legit a DPOY, hten you say hes not like gobert and elite defender....are you telling me a DPOY candidate in your own eyes is not worth a max and were' not saying hes tony allens wher elite on one end and useless on the other, Simmons is the DPOY thats also an elite ball handler, elite size/athelticism in its uniqueness, elite passer, can finish can do everything but shoot.

As mentioned, none of the things you mentioned are facts and if anything gross simplfiications without the possiblity of future change. I'd imagine you also saw lonzos shot and felt its not something he could ever fix, but there he was. The comparasion with Kevin durant makes 0 Sense. KD s a complete player in every sense, he had one year of struggle his rooky year and then learned grew and got it all donw. I don't get how you can't describe him exactly like draymond green, Simmons is literally a swiss army knife just like him and in the right team and fit can be elite. In fact the guy hes practicing with is another example. A subpar shooter whose now respected and did so late in his career. I'm not saying ISmmons will get it, its a tall order, I definitley iwll not write off someone in their mid 20s though at this point. Honestly I'd say this offseason is the most pivotol one. Humans mature considerably in their mid 20s to 30s, he is getting things that he didn't before and for me I don't believe that players some how stop growing after 25 .

 

OKc is the same situation?
Have you seen when the thunder were competing...the amoutn of luxury tax they spetn and they are in a way smaller market then us?

And that was the one thing that Morey never really had. According to the cap numbers at Spotrac, which go back to the 2010-11 season, the Rockets barely went over the luxury tax (just $3.65 million over) in their one season (2015-16) as a taxpayer. The Warriors spent $49.63 million in penalties over the last five seasons, while even the small-market Thunder spent $33.73 million. There was no excuse for Houston to not open up the checkbook. This is a franchise located in the fourth-biggest metro area in the U.S. that has had a superstar in the prime of his career. Alexander sat on his hands while Houston’s rivals went all in, counting on Morey’s ability to use advanced statistics to turn water into wine.

This refusal to spend money became farcical once Alexander sold the team to Tilman Fertitta in 2017. Fertitta spent so much money ($2.2 billion) to purchase the Rockets that he may not have had the liquidity to go into the red to build a title contender. Houston was a laughingstock around the league for the amount of juggling it had to do to stay under the tax. The best example came at the trade deadline last season, when Morey used a future first-round pick to shed the salaries of Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss. There was no basketball reason for the move. It was just done to cut costs. It’s not that Knight and Chriss would have helped the Rockets. But there were certainly a lot of better things that Morey could have used that pick for.

Houston also spent that season in a bizarre staring contest with Danuel House Jr. House is the kind of diamond in the rough that Morey routinely uncovered in Houston, an undrafted free agent on a two-way contract who would become a starting-caliber wing. The problem was that players on those deals can spend only 45 days with the NBA team during the season before their contracts have to be converted. Money in Houston was so tight that Morey had to send House back to the G League when he wouldn’t sign a below-market long-term deal. He replaced House with two players he signed off the street (Gerald Green and Kenneth Faried) before bringing him back right before the playoffs. It’s not like House was asking for the world. He signed a three-year, $11 million contract in the offseason. But even that was more than Morey could offer at the time.


Houston’s limited financial flexibility became an even bigger issue last season after the trade for Westbrook. With the team’s two best players costing a combined $76.7 million, it became almost impossible for Morey to fill out the roster while staying under the luxury tax. Morey and head coach Mike D’Antoni had to conjure up production from players other teams didn’t want. Jeff Green went from being cut by the Jazz to being a crucial piece of the Rockets’ small-ball attack in the playoffs. It was the same story with Austin Rivers, who had been on three teams in five seasons before landing in Houston, and Ben McLemore, who had one foot out of the NBA before the Rockets turned him into a 3-point sniper. All were more valuable in Houston than anywhere else in the league because Morey identified what they could do well and put them in roles that didn’t ask them to do much else. ​

If the owner says cut, you have to do it. We already have the owner saying literlaly that his basektball ops team got weak abotu westbrook trade and he pushed it through. Thats a public quote.

Morey has no incentive if its the traded dealne and owner says get me out of tax, thats why you get first round picks lost in brandon knight trade...we lose assets, options...owner gets savings, no one else wins. Liekwise with many other moves we made. Theres a reason in demand GM's will not work here bc if you have option anre a good at your job are you going to choose a frnachise that says we just want to win, godo what it takes or heres a stronger budget even though were the fourth biggest market, heres my son you have to train him too, and also im going to lie in public and say i let you go all in, ill also say you guys were weak and take credit for trades when i thought they were good, ill also publicly goto press and lie about the coaches contract...Go check...not even Dolan is doing this

 

Are the words in red your words or are you quoting someone? I clicked on all your links and couldn’t find any of those words in there.

I know tilman didn’t pay tax and it changed the type of moves Rockets could make but I still don’t understand why that means we Stone should’ve gone after Ben Simmons instead of the path he’s gone down so far. This path has been bearing fruit, thus far. That’s a fact.

Ben Simmons is kinda garbage man.

 

You always go on a wild ass tangent when you post can you just limit your post to the topic at hand?

First of all, Fertita did say he would pay the tax if the Rox made the Finals. Did the Rox make the Finals? No. So it was on the Rox to make Fertita pay up and they didnt meet expectations.

Secondly Fertita told Morey how much he'll pay, like I said its up to Morey to handle the finances. What you're forgetting is Morey has been the GM for over 10 yrs and every player and every contract has been signed by him. If money is tight, well it's because Morey made it tight. What if Morey didnt sign Ryan Scrubberson to 18M a year, would the Rox be in that situation? No. You talking about Brandon Knight and Marqueese Chriss? Who d hell signed those guys in the first place? Oh yeah it was Morey right? So again Morey made the bed but you are blaming Fertita for not lying in it.

Looking back during the Harden era there wasnt one dude who Morey got that made me think, yeah this dude is a foundational piece outside Capela. The rest of guys Morey has signed, drafted or traded for ended up as quick fix vets or total crap. When you look at the roster, outside of Harden which could be seen as a starting member for a champ team? Ryan Anderson? Eric Gordon? Cp3 making 41M? Lol PJ Tucker was the only other dude and he was old AF. The cap we had wasnt really utilized properly, so I'm not blaming Fertita for not oaying the tax esp when the Rox didnt even make the Finals which was the agreement.

Finally no good GM will work for Fertita? LMAO what do you call Stone Cold? Dude rebuilt the team in 1 year, did a much better job than Morey has done in Philly thats for sure.

 

That’s what I’m saying lol. I’ve argued in good faith about this with Donatello before.

He seems like a smart poster that can make well thought out posts but half the time he goes on these elongated “fertitta is the worst owner ever” tirades as if it’s a relevant response or something we all don’t pay close attention to lol.

I’m just agreeing to disagree at this point. If these dudes still think we should’ve traded for Ben Simmons then God bless them.

 

LOL
IF we make it to the finals?
Are Denver, LA, LA, Utah, Dallas, Portland, Boston, Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee or anyone guaranteed a final appearance? yet they all paid big and went all in
In fact Just like harden, Giannis was an MVP that fell short losing 1-4 in the 2nd round last year and couldn't create offense like he does in the season....tilman would be like well,,..that shows we're not good enough, luckily the fans there aren't routing for an owner or give up on the actual team/players that easily bc they made history this year.
goes to show its not some simple formula.

What I am saying is that the way fertitta set a mandate it is not the par for the nba winning, you can't do it, you can't win like that..you can be mediocre make a great profit like that...so once again if you're rooting for Landry's/tillman or you view the rockets from the perspective of Landry/stilman, then yea you're right. If you are rooting for the Houston rockets nad want to win a ring, this isn't a budget league, this is a billionaires boys club and tilman is makig it harder for us. so once again you go through loopholes to justify tilman, but look around...is milkwaukee justifyin for hteir owner? the warriors pay big, are their fans saying no no its not worth it for lacob


Yea, no established GM would work for tilman. Stone is good, I really like him. But once again, we got a rookie coach and GM. Thats bc of tilman's reputation. This is a league where the money is growing each and everty year...you know our salary 3 years ago? that is now the salary floor, lowest you can spend. The tv deal hasn't even been done, so if we were cheap then, overleveraged its only going to get worse

And yes, every single star...be it giannis, lebron, Mk, kobe would've left houston like harden did. Don't remmeber when lebron dominated the league for 7 years and left for a superteam..lol lebron is soft? Or how about MJ dominated the league individually then finalyl realized it takes more and demanded the bulls get him help...is he soft? OR kobe? loyal laker who demanded a trade or more help? kobe soft too?

So yea, you're idea is great....if you work for landry's and your goal is best bang for buck and best budget for them...if you are abotu the rockets, then maybe take a page from nets fans, bucks fans, warriors fans, thunder fans who aren't screaming for hte owners defense and hoping they aren't wasting their money...that same dude we threw away in tucker who people here said scored 0 and you can't win that way is enjoying his ring and championship right now.

Love stone, love our young guys, we got the worst or one of the worst owners in the league and an odd niche of fans who justify it under his perspective and let go of going all in for the rockets. This is the nba, not a budget league.

 

I think its absolutely fair. I like the position we are in. But the argument is that i think simmons value is hyperbolic and also that we could've squeezed out more bc we pirioritzed what tilman always does, expiring contracts and savings. that said, its not something I think is that strong, I think we're fine and im happy moving forward with your gouny guys.

I think stone has done an amazing job especially given the circumstances of a cheap owner, just like morey did having to do well with confines evne though we're a big market relative to the nba, if you're owner won't spend then it is what it is.

but yea it is all from the ringer article in the red. Should all be there, spoke about not just big warriors,r but okc paying 4-6 times more tax than us and we're the 4th biggest market and how daryl had to give up picks and assets just to make tilmans finances work when no other contenders run that way.
So I know you're a big Green fan, whose to say after his 6/7th year of being an all star he realizes hes making this dude all this money while the guy cheaps out and he wants to win, green will goto a business that will support him to be great and not just make his job harder. Almost all 1A stars would od.

 

No no, i'm just making the casefor more options. I think we could've gotten another deal and its not about 'tilman i hate him' itsjust in nba economics tilman fertitta gives us a significant disadvantage...just like MDA gave us one on defense...it was bad for our team so we all called it out...this is no different but for some reasons people are really touchy about putting an owners own quotes or list of our transactions that show he lied.

Tilman just hasn't made his bad job easier by lying and deflecting. the last thing I think any single one of us came for the rockets is an owner, that goes for any team...if we're talking about hte owner its either for a really bad/stupid reason or he did really incredible...we went from the 1 seed to the boottom of the nba, the trajectory changed there.

Now we have a new start. I don't need to tell you that Green can be trulyspecial, as can a few of our youngsters...you want your boy green to stay in his prime if hes dropping superstar numbers and tilman continues to cheapen his role players while making money on his back? for me these thigns are awarning
some posters on here said CF and fan pressure kept les from doing stupid stuff. we give our time money, we get nothing material back and now we're rsupposed to shut up and listen and be 'dear leader' for tilman too? Nah, He messed up and hes making us look bad, we clal it out...hope he learns and when he does ill be saying good job tilman. So far we punted, the owner really only contributes finances, now he doesnt have to do his thing thathe failed at doing the first time until green and this crew is getting revved up to take us to our next run then we'llsee if he ran, but the guy continues to lie, ain't nothing wrong when he still said just a little bit ago we went all in for with morey, the facts don't back it up.

 

Nobody is guaranteed a finals appearance but that's the agreement between Fertita and the Rockets.

You may think its fair, you may its unfair I dont really care. But that's the agreement did Morey and co. protest at the time? No they didnt. Like I said they failed to uphold their end and showed Fertita why he needs to pony up. Other teams dont have that mandate? So what, Morey should have protested BEFORE they agreed. When they agreed that means the deal is on, you cant renege on that after its done when the Rox failed to uphold their end. Thats not how deals work.

Warriors, Bucks and OKC made it to the Finals, the Rox didnt. That's the difference so before you start yapping to me about other fans I dont give a **** about other fans. You see my tag?

PJ Tucker sucked. He still scored 0-5 pts in the Bucks playoff run. It only worked cuz Giannis was godlike and scored 40+ pts game, making up for the 0 Tucker put in. Tucker was like their 5th best player behind Giannis, Jrue, Middleton and Lopez. I dunno what that has to do with Fertita, are you saying the Rox should have kept Tucker around????

Harden left because the team was trash. Staying here wouldnt help him win a ring. You can say part of it is Fertita didnt pay lux tax, but a large part of it is the players Morey brought in sucked ass. It was all old win now players whom Harden can find in any other team, Capela was the only young good player the Rox had and even he was traded away for Covington. Thats on Morey, not on Fertita.

How Rox now have so much young guys when they arent paying the tax? Guys like Jaesean Tate and Kmart Jr were obtained undrafted or last picks in the draft, if Morey had stocked up on guys like these we wouldnt have so many old and useles vets on the squad.

You can say Fertita was being a tightwad however so many times Morey traded away an FRP for a win now instant impact player. Remember sweet lou? Yeah that dude was obtained for a FRP. Ty Lawson? Another frp. Cp3? Like 3 frps in addition to Harrell, Bev and Sweet Lou who they just traded for etc. Every single move Morey made at the end was geared towards winning now without regard to the future so please spare me the victim spiel for Morey wtf.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/10/16/21519593/daryl-morey-houston-rockets-luxury-tax-resign
answers most your stuff.

 

It doesnt answer any of my questions it just shows me where you get your slanted views from.

It doesnt answer why we keep taking chances on players with low bust rate who never panned out guys like Thabeet, Squid etc. thise guys cost picks to acquire and they always turn out to be busts. It doesnt answer why we keep going after shady vets and trading away frps like nobody's business like I said Ty Lawson, Sweet Lou and Cp3 all thise were obtained for frps and they never lasted more than a season. Hows that for ROI?

You wanna talk about Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss? Fine. They were obtained as the price to dump Ryan Scrubberson and we also traded away Anthony Melton (another frp) to do so. Who signed Ryan Anderson to that 18M deal? That Ringer article doesnt mention it but if you google maybe you'll find out who.

You realize Morey chose Marcus "baby Melo" over Kawhi Leonard in the draft? And then traded Morris when we could have used him as the PF beside Harden? The Rox got first dibs on Jeremy Lin, C Wood and Covington but let them go and had to reacquire them at much higher cost later on. Does that article mention that? Nah. You dont need to pay the lux tax to realize Morey always doubling down on win now mentality at the expense of youth is what caused the house of cards to eventually fall.

 

Morey was clearly compromised by his bad decisions, especially Ryno that you correctly assert led to all of the desperate win now decisions. Not getting the 3rd star really doomed us in the end. If we hadn't done the Ryno thing and somehow end up with PG13 history is a lot different. Instead we made the endless throwaways of talent including Clint Capela as cycle of moves because we never valued growing talent. If we hadn't been desperate to recover from mistakes we could have stashed a talent each year and not been so reliant on older more injury prone players.

 

This is what I'm saying man. People always fixate on Fertita not paying the tax but the only person I recall the Rox not keeping is freaking Ariza who has been horrible since forever.

What really doomed the Rox are dumb "win now" choices that dont pan out. The Rox hadnt made a draft pick since 2015 or w/e and thats not just due to cap saving, thats due to Morey trading away the future for win now vets.

Imagine a world where Morey didnt cut both CWood and Covington for Omri Cassipi and Ty Lawson. When Harden looked around his team he'll see these 2 relatively young guys who can help him win, a frontcourt of Capela, Wood, Covington, Harden and Cp3 maybe they woulda won a ring. No need to trade future assets for those guys either cuz they already on the squad.

 

Just picking Marcus Morris over Kawhi Leonard is a Greg Oden over KD level mistake. But Morey somehow made it worse by downgrading from Marcus Morris (who turned out to be a decent player) to freaking Ryan Anderson...overpaid by 18M.

These are the type of details non dedicated Rox fans gloss over cuz they havent been with the franchise for a long time and only get their info from the Ringer. Like the Ringer would know about Morey's fixation with 2009 draft class we got so many guys from that class but never the good ones like Curry, or Blake. Apart from Harden we got the busts Terrence Williams, Thabeet, Omri Casspi, Johnny Flynn, Ty Lawson etc

 

Your point about Embiid is exactly why Simmons is hurting his team. Embiid does all of those other things because Simmons crowds the paint and leads him to double teams. Much like Dream, Embiid has to rely on his more difficult skillsets. You really want to try and make me believe that Embiid cannot catch and dunk when I have seen it with my own eyes. He's a damn beast down low. He would love it and not have to ONLY rely on more difficult offense. Embiid would be the perfect compliment for a top tier PG and might average 35. It's literally the textbook definition of the 2 man game. That's just basketball 101. Why do you think Morey wanted to trade Simmons for Harden so damn bad? Morey literally did it with Dwert and Capela that didn't have a thimble full of the talent that Embiid has. That team would have won the chip this year.

None of your comparisons work because you try to highlight Simmons good skillsets with other players with similar skillsets but completely DIFFERENT roles. Gobert FULFILLS his role as a rim protector among the very best and produces the offense required. That's not a PG's role. You never take into account the necessity to be able to shoot and the effect it has on the offense if you are a PG. My comparison of KD is valid because I watched ALL of KDs career including college. He had a jumper early on, Simmons didn't. KD grew that part of his game, Simmons didn't. Same size, body type, movements, passing skills, both originally PGs. One matured, the other didn't.

It's this simple really, Simmons can't shoot. NO player that is not a complete player is worth a max and certainly not a PG that can't shoot. You think it's only about a couple of 3s or jumpers a game. It's not. He has shot 34 3s in his CAREER and didn't make one until last year. He NEVER takes a shot outside of the paint. You don't have to guard him beyond the arc. It literally means the other team doesn't have to account for him on D and BTW they don't, they collapse in. John Stockton had one of the most beautiful jumpers when he entered the league and used to do more scoring in the early part of his career but did less than Simmons by the end. How was he effective and Simmons is a problem? His job as a PG was to make life easier for everyone else and you had to guard him at all times and that is why they were in the Finals twice and close many times.