1) Re: Kenny's desfense...While I agree that Kenny is the best of our big men defensively, 1 on 1, I feel that that is more of a comment on our team than Kenny...He is an average defender in man, and below average as a help/team defender. What is more, with our future being more and more evidently tied to Yao Ming, we are going to be using more and more zone, and KT's man defense will be less important. 2) Re: EG's offense...I agree that Eddie has been a bit confused on offense...but can you blame him? Who hasn't looked confused in our offense over the last couple of years? And he's a 20 year old kid trying to find his own game, playing within a team stuggling just as much to find it's own offensive identity. Is it any wonder that the one thing he has seemed most willing to do, to set up on the perimeter and shoot the kick out, is the easiets and least reliant on whatever plays are being run inside? For most of last year we played a guard dominated iso offense...setting up inside for passes that will almost never come, and when they do come usually only do so off of penetration, wherein you, the kid, have to figure out what lane Stevie or Cat or Moochie are going to take to the bucket, and seal off the defender so that there is a passing lane open. Yeah, that's easy...add to that the fact that his other teammates, most notably Kenny, would pass him the ball as often and as easily as Scrooge gave to charity, and what would you expect him to do but set up for the 3? It's not like he's afraid of the inside, look at the boards...And, unlike KT, for example, when Eddie is struggling he doesn't take away significantly from our other offensive players...About his reluctance to set picks, I wouls suggest that if you look back at most young thin players early in their careers that was common, but progresses as they develop. HP said that he dismisses the argument that he should get his touches, not at 35%...So what do you suggest? That pretty much rules out giving touches to any young player who doesn't set the league on fire from Day One...Garnett, Kobe, T-Mac, Novitzki, etc...All Stars? Nope, still sitting according to that theory..Their initial offense left a lot to be desired, but their teams recognized that they needed the time and the 'touches' to learn and improve. How else will he get better offensively? 3) In terms of KT's offense...To not recognize that KT is playing selfishly on offense requires selective vision to such a degree that I am not sure any argument will make a difference. Whatever his motivation, KT rarely looks beyond himself when he gets the ball...This is not entirely his fault, as his greatest success, both in college and last year as a pro, was predicated on him being an iso player...but it doesn't help a winning team. It is a debatable matter whether having guys like that who have incredible talent, like Iverson, or Marbury, are a positive effect on your team...but with a decent talent like Kenny? It just makes you mediocre...which is good when, like last year,you are struggling to reach medicrity, but bad when you want to rise above it. That is why guys like Othella Harrington and Gary Trent and Corliss Williamson never get extended periods of starters minutes on successfull teams..even though they all put up quite good scoring/rebounding numbers/minute...It's because they take more away from other players offense than they add with their own, when taken as a whole. If you don't see how much he is looking shot first on offense, you are trying not to see it... Another point is, I have heard from several people in positions to know that KT has repeatedly made it apparent that his number one concern this season is his contract status...He was extremely surprised that he wasn't extended, and he is very upset about it, on an ongoing basis. It wouldn't be a huge step to deduce that that might be a logical motivation for his wanting to concentrate on his own numbers so far...but it might not be the case. It might just be coincidence...but I would certainly not expect it to get better as the season progresses and his free agency draws nearer.
MacBeth, Well said. And when Rudy rewards him with increased PT it sends a major signal to other players regarding the concept of "team." It drives me nuts when he goes into his routine while everyone else watches; they might as well go rest on the bench until he finishes his jab step mambo!! For the first time in a gazillion years we have talent, and quality depth - at least 9-10 deep. The only way to fully take advantage of that depth is a commitment to WE instead of ME. Only 1-2 players are going to get the minutes they want, everyone else has to buy into their roles as team players. If everyone is willing to share the ball, and the credit, we can flat wear teams down and overcome the injuries that we always seem to get more than our share of. For whatever reason, KT has evolved into a ME player and it's written all over him. Dallas Rocket
Contract year with no extension from rockets. If your company was doing that to you, you would be a me first player as well.
Studogg, A "me first" approach is not going to enhance his value as a free agent. Just the contrary. The NBA is littered with talented but selfish players who drift from team to team and ultimately have no suitors. Dallas Rocket
Heres my view... Kenny is a good defender in the sense that when were playing the sonics with no solid bulk of muscle, he plays with a good intensity, and even when we do have the power 4's, I think he proved last year that he can at least hold them... but I think Mo would be a better defender, ala passer, with a solid 18-20 foot jumper once he gets his rhythm back. Kenny is a situational player, I think against half of the teams we play him, half, Mo... eastern conference teams are awash Eddie is all Eddie is, 20, no real experience or bulk, he will develop nicely, but give him time Kenny looked good against Seattle, but his offense ugh, someone shoot me, I mean even after Yao gave him a couple of nice feeds, you figure he'd want to at least pass it in or complyw ith everyone elses decision to run the offense through Yao and Francis... wow this team has nothing but blue skies if we gel and learn solid fundamental basketball philosophy, Calvin Murphy the prophet of Zion!
OK, ladies and gentlemen, here are your top power forwards for the league by virtual gm 1. Elton Brand 25 2. Tim Duncan 24.1 3. Chris Webber 21.9 4. Kurt Thomas (!) 20.7 5. Antoine Walker 19.4 6. P.J. Brown 19.1 7. Karl Malone 18.6 8. Rasheed Wallace 17.9 9. P.J. Brown 17.9 10. Brian Grant 17.1 And here's where our "power" forwards rank : Eddie Griffin 11.1 Kenny Thomas 10.7 Maurice Taylor 4.6 visit the site here : http://games.espn.go.com/vgm/ My solution to our lack of starting power is to trade Cato + KT + Mooch for Kurt Thomas. We get a legitmate banger who can operate inside and complement Ming's game, and play with others. NYKT can back up Ming at the 5. This is the sort of player we need at the 4/5. We still get to try and develop Griff, the all american. NY needs a true Center (Cato) and a defense 4 (KT). They can have Mo T but I doubt we can swing it. I'd like to dump Mooch's contract, too, if the Charlie Ward expiring contract can come in, plus the injury exception. We would have cap room in the future to chase FAs. This is the deal we need. p
Jeff excellent posts, I fully agree 100%. The 2nd half defense by the Rockets was the best I have seen them play in a really long time. To hold a Sonics team that has been very good offensively this season to 26 pts in a half on crappy FG shooting is excellent. The Rockets help defense was absolutely tremendous as the Sonics were getting very little going to the basket. You could see Barry, Mason, Payton, etc continually try to get inside the Rockets defense but kept being deterred by players helping. I thought Yao and Cato's help was very good in the middle, and Kenny was doing an excellent job rotating. THAT is the kind of defense you need to win big in this league. The problem I am having is offensively. This team needs to figure out by midseason at the latest who is going to get the PT at the PF spot and go with it. If Kenny is going to figure into the future plans of this team, Rudy needs to have a lengthy sit down with him and explain that he will be given an extension and the role he needs to play in the offense ie stop going it alone. Rudy has been playing KT pretty much at the PF position of late and seems to have given up on the SF experiment. Rice and T-Mo have been getting all the PT there of late. KT can find a very nice fit in this offense if he would just defer to Francis and Yao at all times. Yesterday in the third qtr, Yao set him up for two VERY nice plays (one where cut for a layup and another where he made the entry to Yao on the right side and Yao dropped him a pass in one motion where he hit a 15 footer from the right side). KT can be a nice fit on this team if he would just defer to Ming and Francis in this fashion and concentrate on his defense and rebounding. KT so far has been an adequate rebounder and good defender. Sorry but 6.5 RPG is not enough for me from the PF spot from someone getting 30 MPG. KT will need to get 8-9 for me to be to satisfied with his production. As far as the Eddie Griffin discussion goes.... I felt this summer that Griffin and Yao wouldnt make a good tandem up front b/c both are finesse type players and have seen nothing to change my mind. Yao needs to be "flanked by power" as Bill Walton pointed out in the summer. Eddie may have added some weight and such, but its pretty obvious the guy doesnt have the desire to play inside and be an aggressive force around the hoop. His fundamental position defense is awful and his rebounding is so-so. Sorry but 6-7 RPG is just not going to cut it for me from someone getting the kind of PT he gets. The alarming problem right now is that Eddie's game has improved very very little. The guy is still totally uncomfortable inside the 3 pt arc, still gets thrown around inside and is only effective in terms of shot blocking. I just dont see where people get that he is going to be a 20-10 player in this league. Eddie can become a decent player maybe 15-7 type with good shotblocking, but just isnt worth the time or effort imo. This team has been in the lottery three straight years and needs to do whatever it can to climb the mountain at a much quicker rate now. If they trade Eddie, I will have no problem with it.
NIKEstrad, Griffin flat out just does not pass. I don't know if that's glaucoma or not, but it isn't helping the offense. KT shot 12 times last game. I'd say about 2 of those were the cringe (stop the flow) variety out front; 3 were the cringe testing his limits in the low block; and and 2 others were cringe shooting beyond his outside range...the rest (all his makes) were off-ball, in the flow. The previous game he shot 6 times, total. Can't you at least agree that the proportion of fixating on his cringe decisions is off the amount of times he helps anchor our defense by denying frontcourt entry passes. You agree that the best frontcourt defense in the game is defense that denies entry passes. imo, this is every bit as disruptive as a block. The football analogy is the cornerback who never gets thrown at, because he's got his man covered. Denying entries is not a stat, but coaches do keep that stat. And its effect is enchanced when zones are allowed. JLB, Please get off me telling you guys that some of you are not seeing KT's defense, and seeing that he alreayd has a slashing picking game. The guy only needs to be told to pick his spots. At least he doesn't have to gain weight, learn the game, and learn to pass like Griffin. Griffin is looking like a slow project with a 3-4 yr curve, or he might even end up being Rashard Lewis with less a 3ptr but better shot blocking the rest of his life (that, not a power forward). Kenny is insurance for us right not. Saying he needs to go is too rash, and I don't see where it comes from other than frustrated fans with a quick trigger-finger, or bored fans with dreamcasting predispositions. If you guys want to say he needs to stop attacking the defense, then we have agreement. But if you want to say he is a vestigial cancer that needs to be cut off, then you have an argument. Get used to it. Why should we shut up if we think Kenny's the smartest defender on the team and has the natural instincts of a good slasher/off ball offensive role player? Until Griffin proves himself, we must keep Kenny. Griffin has his chances, and will get them again. Rudy loves him.
KT is playing for a contract, plain and simple. His agent probably told him to shoot the ball every time he gets it. HE IS PLAYING FOR STATS SO HE CAN GET PAID NEXT YEAR. I HATE KTs play. Not only does he brick shot continuously but he makes really dumb mistakes that don't show up in any stat line. He looses the ball all the time with bad passes or not catching passes for him. Plus I don't think his D is that great. Who has he stopped. I don't remember him stoppin Rasheed Wallace. I remember EG stoppn Rasheed. Which other PF have we played that makes you guys think KT is such a great defender. Mo Taylor plays better with Yao and Rice. Yao got all his points in LA and Dallas was when Mo Taylor was on the floor. Mo Taylor is a far better player. WHY DID WE GIVE MO 48 Mil if we aren't going to play him. I never understand RUDY T. I would rather have Terrance Morris play than KT. PLEASE TRADE HIM CD. PLEASE.
Griffin was part of the last group of really young guys to get drafted over players with college or foreign experience. He and Tyson Chandler, Kwame Brown, et al fell into similar situations. Griffin was highly sought after because he was athletic and skilled, but that doesn't translate to the NBA easily. Players in the NBA have skill and athleticism but they also know how the game works and what they can and can't do on the floor which is why guys from Europe and later-year college players seem to have more skills when they enter the NBA. They are more developed physically and more developed mentally. Griffin was, for a long time, a big fish in a small pond. Most nights, particularly in high school, he was playing against inferior talent. In college, at best, he was playing against guys of equal skill level. In the NBA, he is probably BARELY in the top half when it comes to skill level. That isn't to say it won't improve. He could improve dramatically. But there is very little comparison between success on the collegiate or high school level and the NBA. Ask Christian Laettner.
To all of you who keeps saying Kenny's such a very good defensive player, who has he stopped or slowed down this year? Please list....How can he be a better overall defensive player than EG? Call me blind, but I just don't see it...they are not in the same level...he does nothing defensively that stands out, nothing.. I could be wrong, but I don't remember him shutting down anybody in a game ever with his defense...maybe one or two plays in a game, but not the whole game... For those of you who are saying EG sucks at positional defense, could it be that he's been a very very good help out defender and on the helpout of his teammates, it makes it look like he's out of position on his own man? That could be the reason why people here are saying he's a bad one on one defender?
KT is OK, but it will take EG to win championships. EG needs PT to mature. I think they are increasing KT's PT to increase his trade value. I would bge very suprised if Mr. Thomas is a Rocket at the end of the year.
Well, since I had so much free time during my supper, I decided to watch part of last night game on tape. On two occasions, while Yao got the ball down low with his back to the basket, KT cut from the opposite side of the key to under the basket with his man chasing right behind him. Boy, that sure looked like 2 players posting down low at the SAME TIME. What kind of offensive play was that. In one of those play, as Yao turned to his right and saw 3 guys right there with him, of course one of them was KT, he stopped and spun back the other way. Luckily he found an open Rice to nail that shot.
gotoloveit2, I think its a clever new play the last few games Rudy just installed to counter the doubleteams down low on Yao. I think it was pretty effective and keeps the defenses on their toes. If Yao post up and they double team, Yao will kick it out and we will swing the ball around and post on the weakside...if there are no one guarding these swing passers, they have an open shot...if they are all guarded, we can either swing it to the weakside, drive inside, or drop it back into the post to the strong side...seems like this play give the post up guys better post up positions and clears up the lane more for us to drive and more room for our post guys to operate...I really like this play...somebody please translate this to basketball terminology...
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I agree that there is a reason he is playing so much. I think, and this is pure speculation, that they are tryinhg to show him to other teams to trade him. that said I have always liked his offensive intensity and footwork, defense? to be honest i havent seen much of that from him.
pasox2, Kurt Thomas is a reknowned black hole and whiner. I don't see your infatuation with him. You are suggesting to trade our strongest inside presence for the SF/PFs positions for a guy that you are going to end up hating for much of the very same reason you dislike Kenny, which could start with demanding touches over Yao. Plus, you will end up with 3 PFs, non of whom can play SF, and the logjam continues. I don't understand. <b>Are we fixating way to much on Kenny's 8.6 FGAs</b>. Eight point six. For the defense he delivers, I can deal with 8.6 shots, and trust our ability to get him to understand his limits and be more the off-ball player we see most of the other minutes he's on the court. <blockquote><hr>Originally posted by ChenZhen To all of you who keeps saying Kenny's such a very good defensive player, who has he stopped or slowed down this year? How can he be a better overall defensive player than EG? <hr></blockquote> Explain to me how EG lost his starting spot, then. The plan for KT to play SF and Eddie to start at PF failed because Eddie Griffin's defense is not nearly as reliable as Kenny's. I would MUCH rather see EG playing solid defense and drawing the opposing team's PF so Kenny could play SF, but that never happened. I don't see how you can argue otherwise without saying the coaching staff is collectively dumb for benching Eddie. Think about it. Eddie did not get benched in favor of Kenny's offense. Eddie got benched because he gets abused, and his offense is without definition. Kenny does not get abused. Kenny always makes the offensive player work hard. If you disagree with this, then you are not only saying some of us can't spot good and bad defense, but you are saying Rudy cannot, either. Your points are based on faith in Griffin. Griffin would not be benched right now if his defense was as reliable as Kenny's.
<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by gotoloveit2 Well, since I had so much free time during my supper, I decided to watch part of last night game on tape. On two occasions, while Yao got the ball down low with his back to the basket, KT cut from the opposite side of the key to under the basket with his man chasing right behind him. Boy, that sure looked like 2 players posting down low at the SAME TIME. What kind of offensive play was that.<hr></blockquote> I agree with ChenZhen. This is a designed cut. KT cuts when the Yao is doubled or the zone tightens on him. Yao was about 12' away from the basket. What the cut does is it allows a pass to KT, but it also makes the weakside move with KT. This creates better spacing for the other two players on the weakside, allowing one of them to be open. And it delivered the pass to Rice and the backdoor cut by Hawkins. That is not a mistake cut by Kenny Thomas. That is by design and on cue. Otherwise, you have 3 players on the weakside staring at Yao and doing nothing. You don't want to clear out for Yao Ming. A passer like that should come with several cutters.
