ok, so i had some time to dig around on the internets and i can now officially retract my retraction. obama did indeed continue to allow evidence gained under torture to be used in a court of law...until the courts told him he couldnt. what say you to all this???
Given my intention to honestly say I cannot and do not trust either the media or the politicians, along with my saying that people take what they want out of the information given and form their own truths, I'll say thank you for proving my point.
Facts don't slant right or left. Something is either a fact or it's not. If you want to really know the truth about something then get off your ass and research the subject. People on this forum fact check posts all the time. The people who intentionally post false information because it's convenient to their point of view get ripped for it all the time here.
I do not believe this move has anything specifically to do with Dick Cheney. Barack Obama is breathtakingly naive, and now that he is President, the realities of the world are forcing themselves into his little fantasy world. Who knows what these pictures are or what they might disclose. However, it is my sense that this is a good move on his part. For that, I say Well done, President Obama! Barack Obama is now responsible for overseeing the national security of this country. Actions that Obama takes that undermine our national security may be entertaining to his left wing base, but they are not amusing to the rest of the country. Obama's approval rating has moved downward to around 50%, depending on the poll you look at. Efforts to win passage of the left wing agenda that he and the Congressional Democrats are trying to ram through will be made increasingly difficult by any further reductions in his personal approval ratings. Based on the current status of his major agenda items, he appears to be having enough difficulties already.
I don't object to using them but I think using them as the primary to view people in a debate forum as this isn't the best way to go. I would rather consider where people stand issue by issue.
from your own quote it looks like the administration concedes that the evidence is bad, however this kid was still accused of a particular terrorist act and the gov't still wants to prosecute.
that's not what you claimed, you claimed he expanded the program, we don't even know if the program is still in use. is he not trying to close it? do you really think you have a good point because it hasn't happened in less then a year. its a freakin prison, that has been there for 7 years, its a little complicated. I never called you stupid, and I never said I was for warrantless wire tapping which as previously stated we don't know if its still going on. he hasn't gone back on anything, in case you didn't notice, there was a financial crisis that had to be dealt with that wasn't there during most of the campaign. priorities changed, I'm glad my president realized that.
I never claimed that the left "never lies," but I don't see them lie with anything even remotely approaching the level of the right. Specifically, media outlets like MSNBC are definitely biased, but I can't remember the last time someone posted an incidence where Olbermann flat out lied. Faux "News," on the other hand, has a long history of distortions and outright lies in their quest to prop up the GOP.
FWIW, I think that Obama is avoiding investigation and prosecution of Bush era officials on purpose. There are simply more important things on his plate (healthcare, cap and trade, Gitmo, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.) for his administration to get bogged down with such an investigation. There is no good reason for him to burn his political capital, which will be better used in healthcare, on GWB. Besides, if Obama were to pursue an investigation, it could take up his whole presidency, fire up right-leaning folks, and make reelection in '12 more difficult. Better to allow the right to continue to GlennLimbize themselves to the margins as we go into the midterm election cycle and then to 2012. There are a number of more controversial issues that Obama will take up in his second term, but he has to have a strategy for getting to the second term, and I believe he is executing that strategy.
"The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
ive seen obama under 50% is the most recent polls - 44-46. on the other stuff we will have to agree to disagree - you believe that obama is not trying to cover for cheney, but the fact remains that the actions he is taking as president are doing just that. i think it is being done deliberately and also so that he or future presidents will also be able to engage in this stuff. presidents rarely give up power that their predecessors have attained - that is why it is so important to make sure justice is served, no matter who commits the crime - to let the crimes of the bush administration go unchecked just leaves the door open for obama or future presidents to think they can get away with it too. thanks for the response though!
initially the administration fought to allow evidence that was gained under torture to be used to keep the defendant in jail. it was only after they knew that they were going to lose that they acquiesced. the kid was accused of a terrorist act???? are you even reading the articles that i have posted? the very essence of the story is that his confession was gained under torture - and that obama was trying to use that evidence as justification for keeping him in jail. i have backed up everything i said w/ multiple sources and yet you are still trying to argue w/ me and engage in this silly nitpicking. we have been going in circles for awhile so im going to have to bow out of this nonsense. peace...
No one's nitpicking except you. That's the point I'm trying to make. Like on Gitmo, because it isn't fully closed within the first year of his adminsitration, you make it sound like it represents some huge failure on his part to live up to expectations. or on this case for example. who knows why the adminstration chose to try to prosecute this kid, but when the judge told the doj that the evidence didn't pass the smell test, the kid was released. are you going to blame obama for something that happened to him six years ago. do you want obama to personally go down to cuba and break the locks and let everyone run lose? they still have to determine as best they can with no help from the record keeping of the previous admin who is a legit threat and who isn't.
If we had elected Obama as supreme leader the stuff he said he was going to do would be done. But as only the chief executive of one branch of a purposely restricted governmental system he has to cajole and jawbone every tiny detail of governance. Anybody that expected radical change was just foolin themselves.
its completely ridiculous. i'm not sold on everything he has done or has not done, but the guy comes into office with some pretty tough issues. Gitmo is a tough issue, he probably oversold how fast he wanted to close it, but its in progress. how can you seriously complain about that. it plays into this notion that somehow people voted for him thought he was the messiah. its a completely made up argument that I should be disappointed in a 10 months presidency so far.
Obama One Year Later: The Audacity of Winning vs. The Timidity of Governing Arianna Huffington http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/obama-one-year-later-the_b_343209.html?igoogle=1
my my... Halliburton May Pay $500 Million To Nigerian Government To Settle Case And Keep Cheney Out Of Jail Halliburton is planning to make a plea bargain in former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s corruption case, Nigerian officials told GlobalPost. [...] However, Halliburton is in talks with Nigerian officials to make a plea bargain in the case, said Femi Babafemi, spokesman for Nigeria’s Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, the agency which has pressed the charges against Cheney. “The companies are asking for a plea bargain, we are reviewing their request, we are talking with them, but we have not gone far with the talks yet,” Babafemi told GlobalPost. Although Babafemi did not give further details, other sources within the agency said the plea bargain might involve a $500 million settlement.
Cheney is not in jail in part because Obama is not a fighter and any beliefs he has wrt abstract concepts like justice or rule of law are subservient to his "pragmatism" and desire to avoid conflict-- unless it is with liberals or the "professional left" who really bug him due to their, well, annoying principled stands on things which Obama somewhere in his psyche retains remants of.
We'll be hearing about random folks from the Bush admin getting jailed for stuff that happened from 2000-2008 steadily over the next two decades, but sadly, Dick Cheney won't be one of them. He's such a trick azz busta.
