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Separate The Wheat From The Chaff

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rokman, Jan 15, 2022.

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Which Players Do You Continue To Build Around

  1. Armoni Brooks (23 yo)

    48 vote(s)
    24.6%
  2. Josh Christopher (20 yo)

    164 vote(s)
    84.1%
  3. Usman Garuba (19 yo)

    70 vote(s)
    35.9%
  4. Jalen Green (19 yo)

    176 vote(s)
    90.3%
  5. Kenyon Martin Jr. (20 yo)

    112 vote(s)
    57.4%
  6. Garrison Mathews (25 yo)

    65 vote(s)
    33.3%
  7. Kevin Porter Jr. (21 yo)

    52 vote(s)
    26.7%
  8. Alperen Sengun (19 yo)

    185 vote(s)
    94.9%
  9. Jae'sean Tate (26 yo)

    104 vote(s)
    53.3%
  10. Christian Wood (26 yo)

    7 vote(s)
    3.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    I think Jalen, Al P, and Jaygup are the only real talents we should keep. Everyone else is a dime a dozen player... MAYBE KMJ.

    KPJ is a meh talent, we shouldn't pay big money to him or anything, but he's definitely worth keeping cheap for now.

    The fact of the matter is most of these guys are going to disappear over time, some probably will disappear from the league.
     
  2. abaker28

    abaker28 Member

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    I'm just shocked at the number of Garuba votes.
    Sure he's only 19, but I havent seen any basketball skill or iq from him. Only athleticism.
     
  3. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    There’s just not that much on our roster to build around. That’s why we really need to aggregate what we do have and make some aggressive offers for young talent. Of course, at this point I’m not sure I want Stone making those decisions given that nothing has really panned out so far, but I guess….
     
    theDude, cdxiong and daywalker02 like this.
  4. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

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    At the moment Green, Sengun, and Tate should be locks.. Although Tate should be on the bench but playing 18-25 mpg by then..

    KMJ and JayGup just for wow plays should play about 10-15 mpg .

    Armoni Brooks and Gary Boobird should see minutes only if their shot is falling in stretches. Always should have capable 3 pt threats available especially if the playmakers are actually playmaking ...

    The rest... Deuces!
     
  5. TimDuncanDonaut

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    I would like to see Garrison to be a part of this, but his recent slump is giving me doubts. The contract is so low risk that if Stone has to shuffle the deck he may be one of the ones to go. I hope Garrison takes advantage of the minutes he's getting right now, it's unclear if he'll still get it next year.
     
  6. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Rather it be separating corn from husk

    Keeprs
    Jalen Green
    Josh Christopher
    Tate
    Sengun
    Mathews

    Would not be upset if any of this list traded:
    Porter jr
    Brooks
    Kenyon jr
    Garuba

    I expect to be traded:
    Wood
    Eric Gordon
    Theis
    Nwaba
    Augustin

    Wall could be free if he accepts a $1 million dollar buy out; but
    the jive turkey probably won't accept $1 million less than he is
    on record to receive. So keep sitting.
     
    #46 ApacheWarrior, Jan 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
    cmlmel77 and kjayp like this.
  7. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

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    There is a high probability we end up getting rid of a guy that absolutely flourishes elsewhere, maybe 3-4 guys. We are analyzing these guys through Silas' lens, truth be told we do not even know what we have, we have been ignoring how bad this coaching staff is because we are tanking, but there will some costs associated with it, and losing talent because you had no idea how to use it is one of them.
     
    MorningZippo, Aruba77, Rokman and 2 others like this.
  8. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Exactly, should light a fire under his behind.

    GM got to be held accountable.
     
    cdxiong likes this.
  9. Rokman

    Rokman Member

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    In my view, the guy to build around is Sengun.

    His age, size, skill set, growth potential and work ethic are head and shoulders above the rest of the team.

    The only other player I think that locks in the way he does and is really worth keeping if I had to boil it down to whose the next best is Tate. The only thing is I see him as an essential 6/7 man that does those little things on both ends of the floor that ultimately get you the win.

    I wouldn't really be upset if any other player was moved.

    This team is going to go through a lot of changes over the next few years but those two should not be one of them.
     
  10. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    I don’t know if there’s really any player worth building around at this point. Nobody on this team is showing a consistent ability to net us wins, and nobody has been a dominant performer night-in, night-out. The most consistent players are clearly Gordon and Wood, with Tate running a distant third. The first two appear to be on the market so really that only leaves Tate as a consistent contributor that the team seems to want to keep. But his limitations (size, shooting) are way too great at this time to merit making him the team centerpiece.

    As far as the rest, I think Sengun, Christopher and Green (in order of potential) are worth keeping as legit team pieces. I’ll add in Garuba only because he has no trade value whatsoever and thus it makes the most sense to get him down with the RGV and have him gain experience. Everyone else should be available to trade for the right price.

    As a final comment, anyone who thinks KJM is a better player or has more potential than Tate is on crack. KJM is an explosive athlete but just as undersized, just as poor a shooter and a far worse ball handler, playmaker, defender and rebounder. Only advantage KJM has are blocks, but he’s not close to being a game-changing rim protector (which is the whole point of being a shot blocker). If a good trade comes along that requires either player, I’m trading KJM 100 times out of 100.
     
    Aruba77 likes this.
  11. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    If you had to strip things down to the studs you’d keep Sengun, Green and Christopher, but I’d argue you’d still need to surround them with guys like Matthews, Tate and Nwaba who play every minute like it’s their last. It’s clear we need a couple more good drafts, certainly some trades, and some smart ascending additions in free agency to feel like we have a solid foundation. I think we are really far away.

    fortunately we can trade Eric Gordon for a draft pick or young asset (preferably before he gets hurt)

    we can trade Christian Wood for a draft pick or young asset.

    We can make a bet on a young ascending player in free agency.

    we can make the most of our two 2022 1st round draft picks.

    we can also aggregate some of our picks and assets to take some shots at young talent through trade.
     
    #51 Aruba77, Jan 16, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
    BallSoHarden likes this.
  12. hajkov

    hajkov Consummate Member

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    Green and Sengun the only sure to keep.

    Try keeping Tate and Matthews as well as they have shown some good defensive talent you need to keep in your team.
    Try keeping DJ Augustin as senior PG to set plays when the rookies are not doing it properly.
    Garuba to Gleague for an year and you try again. If he doesn't pan out, ship him back to Europe.

    Trade anyway:
    Gordon needs to go because he deserves better and have trade value.
    Theis just didn't fit and has a high salary.

    Must trade - all the rest of the trash.
    Wood and KPj are cancers. Use their scoring talent to bait trades, but unfortunately other teams won't be as dumb as the Rockets.
    KJMartin has shown nothing else than a flashy dunker. Can't defend, can't shoot.
    Armoni talent is the most replaceable (pure shooter, nothing else).
     
  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    We have the right role players but our star rookies are only semi stars at best in a few years.

    You cannot compete in the West and in the league with that.

    Unless we luck out in the draft this year and next year also.
     
  14. FLAGRANT1

    FLAGRANT1 Member

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    Garrison and Brooks won't be here if when the core makes the second round of a playoff series. KJ will probably be gone as well ...
     
  15. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

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    if Matthews shot isn't falling (which seems to be the case more often than not due to his insane mechanics) then he is a big liabilty on the floor. can't do anything else except draw the occasional charge.
     
  16. futilman

    futilman Member

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    People are too hard on Garuba thus far. He’s really good obviously on defense but also passing and overall decision making. He should get all minutes at PF after wood is gone. Needs to get a corner 3 and then he’d be unreal.
     
  17. Rokman

    Rokman Member

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    Just out of curiosity, where can I see this in action since he has come over to the NBA / G league?
     
  18. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    Setting my sights low: backup 5 behind Sengun.
     
  19. Rokman

    Rokman Member

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    I'd be willing to keep Wood but only if we moved him to the 3 spot. If we were to get Holmgren or Banchero, then I'd like to see the following lineup:

    P.G. - Someone other than KPJ
    S.G. - Green (6-4)
    S.F. - Wood (6-10)
    P.F. - Sengun (6-10)
    ..C. - Holmgren (7-0) OR Banchero (6-10)

    That would be a very big front line and I think Wood would do much better not getting tossed around by big body 4's and 5's.
     
    Ankara1923 and TimDuncanDonaut like this.
  20. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    https://theathletic.com/3075329/202...luating-potential-roster-moves-before-feb-10/

    John Hollinger: The biggest thing teams have trouble with, especially if there is pressure from outside basketball operations, is being honest with themselves about where they are and where they’re going. This is especially true in a year like this one, where the possibility of maybe finishing in 10th — and then who knows what happens — lingers tantalizing for six different teams that normally would be easy to classify as bottom-feeders.

    For Houston, I think there’s another layer of honesty that’s also important, honesty about the talent of the young players they’ve already invested in. Sometimes teams can get so hung up on a young player they found and developed that they’re unwilling to give them up, regardless of what’s being offered, and blind to look at talent upgrades at the same position.

    In Houston’s case, I think they see the world relatively clearly as far as where they stand. They know they’re rebuilding, and they’re not going to challenge for anything important this year, and that doing so next year is probably a stretch, too. Knowing that, it’s pretty easy to enter the trade deadline with an open mind about veterans like Eric Gordon, Daniel Theis and D.J. Augustin. They should probably be listening pretty intently regarding players like Christian Wood and Jae’Sean Tate, too — both of whom have a year and a half left on their deals and, thus, are likely near the peak of their trade value.

    The more interesting question in Houston is how they feel about their young players and what that may mean for a trade strategy. Are you so locked in on Kevin Porter Jr. and Jalen Green as the backcourt of the future that you won’t consider dealing for another young guard? Do you believe enough in Josh Christopher, K.J. Martin, Alperen Şengün and Usman Garuba to try to clear more playing time for them? And what if another team calls and offers you a first-round pick (or other goodies) for one or more of those players? What’s your walkaway price?

    And then the final piece, of course, is what’s out there that you can get? Is there a player out there — not just a second-round pick, but an actual basketball player — whom you could acquire that would materially improve this team’s outlook over the next half-decade or so?

    Overall, however, in a situation like Houston’s — where they’re much more likely to be sellers than buyers — the biggest thing to understand across the front office is what they’re willing to accept for each one of their players. Knowing where the bar is ahead of time makes it much easier to avoid winging it in the “speed round” during the final hours before the deadline.

    […]

    (Hollinger continued…)

    So getting back to the Rockets and their players … in terms of valuing them on the trade market, Wood should have the most trade value, but I think a lot of contenders look at him a little sideways. They’re not sure about him defensively in a playoff environment, and the background reports on him (which were the reasons he went undrafted) weren’t improved any by recent events. He’s a really talented offensive player who can block shots, but I’m not sure the Rockets are really going to be able to get what they’d consider “fair value” for him.

    Gordon, on the other hand, is a guy I think some contenders would welcome despite his contract. He can space the floor, is strong enough to switch on D and isn’t just a stand-still shooter. He’s also having a nice bounce-back year at 33. I would want to move off some 2022-23 money if I’m taking on a $19.6 million obligation for him next year, but if so, he could be a nice target for a team like the Lakers or Bulls. A protected first plus a bad contract would be the ceiling, but I’d at least ask for it and see what happens.

    Theis probably is worth a second-round pick for a team that needs frontcourt help. He hasn’t been good in Houston, but I think his game fits a little better on a good team, and his contract is pretty reasonable. Given how badly he fits in Houston and his age, I don’t think the Rockets would need to be blown away by an offer.

    Tate fits a very specific need of a team that needs a defensive stopper and can put four shooters next to him. Because he’s such a niche player on a contender and the surplus value of his minimum contract, I think he probably has more value to the Rockets than what he could command in a trade. (Two second-rounders? Maybe?)

    Nwaba isn’t going to be that attractive to contenders because of his shooting; I think a second-round pick is probably about the ceiling. Finally, I’d be shocked if anyone traded anything of value for Augustin, but his $7.3 million contract could be a factor in a trade.

    […]

    I think the Rockets absolutely need to remain focused on talent acquisition, much as they did a year ago with the Kevin Porter Jr. trade or, for that matter, when they dealt a future first to get Şengün. I’m not sure how the Reddish trade will work out for New York, but that’s definitely the type of trade Houston should be looking at, where they can use the future firsts from Milwaukee or Brooklyn to get a player they value at a position of need. As you point out, I think they could use a real point guard and a skill player with size who can play both forward spots. There aren’t many players of that ilk available, especially if they’re not in the Ben Simmons market, but the Rockets should be opportunistically calling anyway.
     
    #60 J.R., Jan 18, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022

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