Selling the Morning After Pill Over the Counter-----

Actually, I know literally a dozen or more Catholics who believe in and use birth control. I think the Catholic church's stance on birth control is ... lets use the word silly in order to avoid being TOO inflammatory. There is nothing I have learned in my study of religions (Christian and otherwise) that would lead me to believe that God has some sort of prohibition on birth control. Personally, I think the Catholic church holds that belief so that Catholics will continue to have more and more little Catholic children. There is no good reason for the church to prohibit birth control, IMO.

You need to bookmark dictionary.com, dude.

a·dul·ter·y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-dlt-r, -tr)
n. pl. a·dul·ter·ies
Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.

That commandment has to do with CHEATING, not having sex ouside of marriage.

When millions of people try to force their morality on people who do not believe the same way that they do, then there is something wrong with this world.

 

I apologize, I never meant to have any particular "tone" with you.

On most things, including your stance on abortion, I find you very reasonable and passionate in your beliefs. I admire your zeal, but on this particular part of this issue, I think you are being VERY unreasonable. You have still not deigned to answer my question about other forms of birth control which have the same effect as this one. I may think bobreck is way off the deep end, but at least he answered my question honestly.

WHAT REDEFINITION?!? I have not used a "slip and slide approach" that I can see, please point out where I have slipped or slid. If you can't handle logic then it really is useless talking about this with you.

I value liberty over the POSSIBILITY of life. You don't. The end.

 

p.s.

i was serious when i said, "the end."

 

LOL. Me too.

 

And I know dozens who feel the opposite way. The point is, it is a tenet of the Catholic faith which is followed by tens of millions of people across the world. Whether anyone agrees with it or not is a different issue, but it is a teaching of the Catholic church. Simply because you don;t agree doesn;t make it "silly".

O.K., I'll take a different approach. Fornication, which is defined as sexual intercourse between two unmarried people, is against the teachings of my faith and other faiths as well, according to the Bible.

In no way am I forcing my morality on anyone. I have offered my opinions and thoughts and beliefs on artificial birth control. In my opinion, engaing in pre-marital sexual activity is not necessary to a long and happy marriage. You feel differently. Just as you are not trying to force your morality upon me, I'm not trying to force my morality upon you.

 

It makes it very silly to me. I don't have anything against Catholics or Catholicism, but it strikes me that it is nearly as backward a religion as some forms of Islam. Catholics are among the only Christians who have not updated their belief system as a result of the advances we have made as a race.

It is silly to prohibit birth control arbitrarily, especially when there is no basis (to my knowledge) in the Bible or other religious texts.

So just because YOU believe it to be wrong means that other people should not have access to contraceptives because YOU have some moral issue with it?

You are trying to force your morality on others if you ever make an attempt to ban contraceptives, which you claimed you would support. You are trying to force your morality on others if you ever try to have abortion banned. You are trying to force your morality on others if you try to keep this contraceptive off the shelves.

I do not believe that my opinions are the be-all end-all, nor do I think that the way I have lived my life is the best way to live. However, I do support the right to be free to make your own decisions and your own choices. You seem to want to take those decisions and choices away because you have a moral objection. If you have a moral objection to this drug, don't take it. If you have a moral objection to abortion, don't have one. Just don't try to force your moral objections on other people.

 

Hmmmmmm.....

Two religions with one swipe.

3 billion people.

Tolerance.

 

But, by your definition, aren't you trying to force your morality on me by supporting issues I disagree with? From discussions we've had, you support abortion and would do things in your power to ensure that women have the right to choose abortion (e.g. use your voting power). You feel somewhat differently than me about drugs as well as downloading music and movies. You feel differently than me about artificial birth control. These issues are all about morality to one degree or another. I suspect that each of us would choose/vote the opposite of the other on these particular issues. In that event, you are forcing your morality on me as much as I am forcing my morality on you.

I support the rights we have in our lives to make choices. I support my right to vote with my conscience and heart. I support your right to do the same. Just because I don't support the moral choices others may make, doesn't mean I condemn them or think I am better than them. I know and associate regularly with people who have made different moral choices than I have.

If you think that by me exercising my right to support issues that I feel (based on my life experiences, upbringing, faith, education, etc.) will better serve humanity, that I am forcing morality upon you, then, by that definition, you are correct. In the same vein then, others are forcing their morality upon me when they support issues I disagree with.

 

I have a ton of tolerance for them, but that doesn't mean I can't have my opinion of the religions. I studied all of the major religions along with many minor ones for years and years and my opinion is that Islam is an immature religion that is still going through many of the growing pains that marked the Christian religions. Their recent history is marred with violence, as were the Christians at about the same point in their religion's life-cycle.

The Catholic religion by comparison has stagnated over the past few hundred years. They have chosen not to grow and change with the times and the result has been the decline in their "faithful." I hope you will forgive me if I find the religion that has a problem with birth control and homosexuality a bit hypocritical considering that they just cane out against child molestation a couple of years ago.

 

Just to clarify, the Catholic church has no problems with homsexuality, but does have a problem with the sexual acts.

 

No, because I am not trying to criminalize actions that are against my moral code. Nor am I trying to remove choices that people have regarding their health and well being. The difference is that I would never presume to try to codify my morality into law whereas you seem to think that this country would be much better if we banned abortion. You also seem to think that your moral objection to this drug should trump others' right to use any form of contraceptive that passes FDA muster and meets the users' needs.

If you think we differ on downloading, you never really listened to what I said (though that is an issue for another thread).

And yet you support stripping those peoples' rights by banning abortion or contraception.

Again, some of us are not trying to have our moral beliefs codified into law. I would NEVER tell someone that they HAD to have an abortion (which would be forcing my morality on someone) where you would (if you had the power) ban abortion, which would force YOUR personal morality on someone else.

Make your own moral choices and allow others to do the same. I don't have any problem with you being against abortion. I applaud your zeal. My only problem with anti-abortionists is that they are trying to force their beliefs on others by codifying them into law.

 

Come on. If they have a problem with the "sexual acts" then they have a problem with homosexuality because the sexual acts are part of what defines a homosexual.

From dictionary.com:
homosexual
adj : sexually attracted to members of your own sex [ant: bisexual, heterosexual] n : someone who practices homosexuality; having a sexual attraction to persons of the same sex [syn: homo, gay]

So the church doesn't have any problems with homosexuals that repress their sexuality, just the ones who express themselves, huh?

(this deserved another one)

 

So there is absolutely no moral situation (in your mind) that you would try to prevent by voting for/against proponents/opponents of that situation? Did you vote in any of the elections concerning legalizing/expanding the lottery/gambling in Texas? If so, by exercising your right to vote, didn't you force your morality upon those who disagreed with you?

(with respect to the downloading issue, in one particular instance you stated that you downloaded a movie (LOTR?) - albeit, one you intended to buy - prior to it being available, even in theatres. You apparently see nothing morally wrong with that - I do)

 

I was clarifying that the Catholic Church does not condemn or have a problem with homosexuals. You can be homosexual without participating in homosexual acts. The act is what the church has a problem with. Granted, that may or may not mean a hill of beans to folks, but there is a difference.

 

Again, the difference is that by voting for the lottery, I am not FORCING anyone to share my moral belief that gambling is an individual issue. I am not FORCING anyone to buy a lotto ticket, but if you had the power, you would make that choice (to take away gambling) for millions of people.

Since Apple has started Itunes and Napster has invented a legal version, I have reevaluated my stance on downloading music. I will not illegally download music now that there is a way to purchase that music in the form that I want (electronic media).

As far as downloading movies (specifically that one), you are right, I still don't have a problem with having downloaded LOTR b/c I watched it twice in the theater and have since purchased it on DVD. They got my money and I believe that they should provide the media in the form that meets my needs as the consumer.

Again, though, I would not force my moral belief that downloading music without paying is wrong on other people. Personally, I think the record companies are absolutely insane for not embracing Kazaa as a form of free advertising for their bands, but I would not write that into law. I think that the people downloading are building up some bad karma, but I would not make their actions illegal.

 

well said andymoon

my body, my rules, keep your religion to yourself.

 

No, there isn't. That is pure semantics and word games.

 

Fact - The Catholic church does not condemn or have a problem with homosexuals.

Fact - The Catholic church does have a problem with homosexual acts.

You can be a homosexual or heterosexual without participating in homosexual acts or heterosexual acts. You can be physically attracted to whoever, without acting upon those feelings. A relationship does not have to culminate in sex for it to be complete.

How do you not see the difference?


(By the way, I have no problem with gambling )

 

bobrek,

that platform makes no sense

it is like saying, the Catholic Church doesn't have a problem with Baptists...they just have a problem with people who practice the Baptist faith.

 

No, more like they don't have a problem with people who have a Baptist faith but they have a problem with people who <b>practice</b> that faith. Isn't that more on target? They are concerned about the behavior not the internal monologue.