Selling out our country - Comcast paid what to whom?

whoa dude. I'm not arguing. Slow down. Do you want to read expert knowledge on this from someone on the BBS, or not. I promise I won't try to persuade you or win an argument.

Here's the deal....in my most objective opinion. You're not considering all the information. The media story (and apparently Congress and the Lobbyists) are stuck thinking only about apps. That helps the cable/communication companies to appear lacking in info compared to Google.

Let me explain this using the OSI Model. It defines seven layers of how network infrastructure works. ISPs operate in the Layers 2-4 (sometimes Layer 1, as well). Google doesn't. They work in the layers above. You are king off different information at different levels that you operate in. It is just simply a fact that ISPs have unique and comprehensive access to information in the 2-4 Layers of the Internet that Google Search and other apps, in the layers above, don't.

And the OSI Model isn't a model as in an abstraction or theory...it is very much discrete things...both physical and logical.

My opinion or voting stance on this is irrelevant to me being in this thread. I'm merely offering a broader picture of all the data we are talking about. There is a lot of data and information that somehow is not being discussed....because the Broadband for America groups are making the discussion appear like only the App-Level data is at issue here. It isn't....otherwise the ISP would have nothing to sell right -- you know, since they can't read the HTTPS payloads of google...right?

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Allow me to use an analogy --

ISPs are not like Google or HEB -- they are more like Trucking Companies

tallanvor in the other thread compared HEB to Google Search. Well the ISPs aren't like HEB and Google Search. They don't actually create, sell or consume data ...they sell data transfer... (analogy: they don't make products or sell them, they move them). Let's call them the trucking company for HEB that moves goods from the suppliers to the stores/consumers. They don't actually look inside the trucks. But they have some pretty damn valuable information about where the goods are coming from and where they are going to and at what frequency ... and actually who the buyers are...and what their physical street address are.

Now, add to that that the trucking company isn't just supplying connectivity between suppliers and consumers for HEB ... but for every user destination in the country. For all "stores." They have a cross sections of Source Location and Destination Location of all Traffic. Again with the actual Physical Mailing Address of You and Me.

"Trucking" Company Info

So, the truck drivers clipboard manifest of source, destination, size, frequency is just the tip of the iceberg of what the trucking company knows.

Now consider, should the trucking company be able to sell the information to advertisers if they were just supposed to be the stewards of the transit of the goods. Both FedEx and Walmart are my clients. They bought over $1m of our software to track their energy and carbon data, etc. FedEx wants to sell that info back to Walmart....which is pretty cool idea. I could go on and on and on with this analogy of how much info the trucking company has about Walmart and us, and how valuable that info is. But I'll leave that to your imagination. Consider they have 800,000 "Walmarts" as merchants shipping packages to us. ISPs have WAAAYYY WAYYY more target and destination of consumer sells.

ISP Info

In OSI Model, the Source and Destination URLs within the TCP/IP packets carrying your encrypted payloads is just the tip of the iceberg of what Layer 2-4 sees. Make no mistake ... they can know whether you bought something if they want to map payload signatures. They can know what you bought. They can know what shows you are watching. A freaking lot. And, again, since you must pay for their services, they know your name, phone number and mailing address. So they have very valuable direct-marketing channel info that Google Search simply doesn't have. And they most definitely know everywhere you are going....whereas Google Search basically knows what you are asking it....and where you jumped to from them.

Back to ISPs: they were never intended to do much more than "packet sniff" the header info of data. Now they want to obviously store header info, analysis it, run heuristics ... etc ... and convince us it's their data. Uh, no, it isn't really your data. Layer 2-4 of the OSI Model does not create, consume or own any data....like the Application Layer companies do.

Packaging Services

Now consider that the communication companies can also package services. They are you ISP, TV Provider and Phone Provider. When Broadband for America talks about "cross-context tracking" they somehow leave that part out.

Hopefully I didn't sound like I was trying to win and argument or scare you

Hopefully I didn't sound Orwellian...like I'm painting a picture of Big Brother. I'm no more for Google as I am the ISPs. I am just VERY CONSERVATIVE to change wrt to these company's possible exploitation of information that was originally not intended to be sold for advertising....much less captured....wrt ISP storing and analyzing packet headers over time....it's not their data...they are passing it through.

 

Except that just because they can't break an encryption doesn't mean they can't piece together what you are doing, which goes against your main point.

 

From the other thread

Rocket River

 

Good info, HP.

Yes, I completely agree ISP's power is very significant. Again, its the misinformation and the anti-trump political spin that bothers me more. The meta data that IS being captured is unreal. This goes beyond "browser history". All one has to do is setup Wireshark to see exactly what flows across a network and how it can be exploited for advertisement gain.

However you can't underestimate the power of Google's empire. Google and Comcast bring in roughly the same revenue, however Google is nearly 90% advertisement revenue. Their mining horsepower far exceeds anything comcast can bring together. Google knows about YOU. Google probably knows the best way to reach you than your ISP. They dont need your phone number (so people can ignore the calls), or your address (so you can throw away the mindless junk mail). They inject their crap right onto your screen in front of your face where you can't ignore it... tailored just for you, not some unknown person behind the ISP's CPE.

One can argue they are not forced to use Google. However that is a weak claim. Any site using a google product exposes the person to Googles all seeing eye.....just like Clutchfans.

As you stated, I am too not trying to make a case for or against this policy. I simply do not have a right to throw a liberal tittybaby fit when I use every Google product out there. Its obvious I have no concern for my online privacy using all of Googles products. The same applies to the ISPs.
I also suspect many of those who decry this privacy policy also completely disregards it everywhere else on the internet.

 

This shows how little you know about the modern internet. You can shut off google's "all seeing eye" by blocking their cookies and you can even block their ads with most modern browsers....including chrome. In fact, Google itself allows you to turn off all it's data collection on you. Google collects data to provide you targeted ads and an integrated platform. ISP's are collecting your data not to create an ad network, but rather to actually SELL the data the third parties on an individual basis.

Google is no saint, but at least know what you are talking about before you post.