I didn't say tightening security doesn't help prevent attacks so I don't think your alleged logic can be aplied to your false premise. The argument is that unnecessarily oppressing millions of Arabs and making hundreds of millions of them mad and irrational can overhwhelm any security measures we can take. It that really so complicated to understand? Are you aware that even our military commanders on the ground have voiced such thoughts as "are we really creating more terrorists than we are killing? Wouldn't you consider the level of military and Patriot Act type securiy measures taken currently in Iraq or Israel for instance to be quite high and and yet far from effective?
Exactly what rights are being violated? Be specific. Again, I'm not saying the Patriot Act is perfect. Mistakes have and will continue to be made just like in our court system and other law enforcement organizations. So should we dissolve any organization that isn't perfect? Also, I don't think anyone defending the extension of the PA is saying that it is a 100% guarantee that we won't get hit again. Obviously there is no such thing. But IMO if it prevents just one terrorist act from happening on American soil, I think it's worth a few people having the privacy of their library book checkout list being compromised.
One has to wonder if the Bush loyalists might occasionally wonder why Canada or Mexcio or Brazil or Switzerland and most of the other countries in the world don't have problems with Arab terrorism.
Sad. I guess someone can't form an opinion for himself and needs his party lines to help him discern between right from wrong.
God, this makes for depressing reading. I've read much of it before, but it still gets to you. I visited the WTC site with my wife and kids in the middle of June, a few weeks ago, and it's hard to see that so recently and then read stuff like this. The ultimate irony is that John O'Neil, one of our top anti-terrorist experts, was "driven out" for apparently trying to do his job too well, and took a job at the WTC, dying the next day when it was attacked and destroyed. Like so much else, that is unbelievable. Also unbelievable, well... if it were to happen in any other administration, is that the higher-ups in the FBI who exhibited gross incompetence while on duty were later promoted! Is anyone ever held accountable for their mistakes in the Bush Administration? Anyone?? It's enough to make you sick. Keep D&D Civil!!
If I recall correctly, cheetahs are not man-eating big cats. Many people are confusing cheetahs with leopards - which actually is a big concern to the people living in villages in Africa. So I am all the more puzzled by the quote in this: Why people attempt to run away from cheetah? - It won't eat you. - It will outrun you. Anyway I find this OK one more
Like it or not those Muslims are Americans too. Unfortunate that Mr_Patriotism still makes that distinction when religious freedom was one of the principles upon which this nation was built upon. They are entitled to the same protection under the Constitution as anyone else. Are you such a scared little_man that you're willing to sacrifice the very Consitutional foundation which once made this country so great so you can feel a little bit safer? Does knowing that Habib down the street had his library record reviewed help you sleep better at night?
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." I'm sure everyone's sick of seeing that quote but if one of the most intelligent men to ever grace this planet realizes this, why can't the conservatives?
You know, this comeback that is increasingly used by the liberals as a taunt against what they perceive to be conservative errors is absolutely disgusting. It trivializes what happened on that day, and frankly is insulting to America and everybody who lost loved ones in this terrible tragedy. For you to come back with a comment like this that insinuates that 9/11 wasn't that big of a deal, I'll leave you with some pictures: EDIT: I have changed the pictures to simply links because they are very powerful. Somebody's brother? http://www.gavinsblog.com/jumper11.jpg A father of two kids? http://idisk.mac.com/jenlart/Public/WTCfallingman.jpg Hundreds of passengers just like me or you onboard: http://www.thecatgallery.com/images/World Trade Center.jpg not for the weak of heart: http://media.maineindymedia.org/con...intv/World Trade Center censored photo 03.jpg
Don't turn into a clown, texxx. That was unnecessary. Do you want a constant stream of pictures of dead and dying Iraqis and American soldiers to grace the pages of D&D? Posting something like that, in the context of a discussion like this, is offensive, at least to me. I saw the second plane hit the WTC, live on CNN. I followed the whole nightmare from the beginning to the present, continuing controversy surrounding how and why it happened. What you did was like shouting fire in a movie theatre. Were I Clutch, and that continued, I'd consider stopping our image privileges for a while. We could post horrific images from now until the cows come home, and not run out. And to think that anyone who happens to be a liberal isn't maddened by what happened, and wants revenge in the worse way, is just sick and disgusting. Keep D&D Civil!!
Texxx - That was truly pitiful. It puzzles me why you two continuously keep playing the "well tell that to a widow from 9/11" or "the left plays down 9/11" card. I had a relative who worked in the Towers and died on 9/11. Noone is playing down 9/11 dude. What you just did was shameful.
I don't get it. "9/11 changed everything" is a patented motto only to be used by the Bushies? And how is Patriot Act capable of eliminating the tragedy of 9/11? BTW, there's no need to post these pictures to remind me of this, bigtexxx. Do you have any of them posted in your house to keep your blood boiling and pumped up?
Quit being a drama queen, you know wnes was not trying to trivialize 9/11. He was merely pointing out how the emotional impact of the tragedy has undermined logic and reason and resulted in the PA. That's what's disgusting.
Trash Texxx, pure and simple. You deserve to be banned, if for no other reason than you are morally bankrupt. Pick up a rifle--Chickenhawk
I don't know if you've ever read the Patriot Act or at least browsed a summary, but habeas corpus is probably the biggest one. I'm sure you'll ask for an example, so I'll turn to Mr. Padilla: He is an American citizen, who has been held for 4 years (since 2001). The government says he's a terrorist, but they've never proved it. The government was told to either prove he was a terrorist in a trail or to let him go in 90 days. That was way more than 90 days ago, and he's still being held. The government has appealed that ruling, saying they don't have to prove anything and can hold him forever. That should scare you, I hope. Check my previous posts for linkage to this abuse, and others.
Texxx, I would imagine your wanton use of those images would do more to offend families of 9/11 victims than anything anyone in this thread has said. That was truly classless.
