I think to be the second best shooter you need to be able to show capability to shoot in all situations, not just wide open catch and shoot scenarios or running around a bunch of screens. These two are the most common and easiest ways to make shots. That cancels out a lot of shooters such as Klay, Reggie, and Kerr who relied heavily on screens, or the teams offense creating open shot opportunities for them. It's tough to choose between Durant, Allen, Bird, and Nash. I would go with Allen as my first choice and Durant for my second choice. Allen in his earlier years was an efficient shot creator who later became more of a catch and shoot player due to age. Back in the mid 2000s, he was the first player that came to people's minds anytime the word shooter was mentioned. Durant can literally shoot in any situation and his percentages rival with the best of them.
Why do you punish players who use screen. It's like saying running backs who are good at using blockers aren't really that good. Moving without the ball and using screen is a basketball skill that attached to shooting. What you should punish are spot up shooters who rely on superstars to create open look for them.
This. It’s more impressive to me at least when one is able to move without the ball, make cuts and utilize screens to get open shots. It’s also way more efficient and makes for much better basketball. No dribble dribble dribble and running the shot clock down. Prime example of someone that can get buckets any way he wants as efficiently as possible is Klay Thompson. Plus when he’s on I’d say he’s scarier than Steph. Look at the difference between how Klay got his 60 compared to when Harden got his 61. Klay usually takes 3 dibbles or less and many where he gets easy buckets at the hoop with not a single dribble… just from moving the ball. His teammates are involved, the pace is fast and everything is fluid. Beautiful to watch. Probably could’ve dropped 80+ easily if the game was a little closer. Harden’s 61 is impressive too and I’m not hating on him but everything is ISO, dribble dribble, everyone else standing around watching, slow paced, and it’s taxing on Harden to do that and when he was off your fukd. Played till the very end to barely beat a terrible Knicks team.
I'm not saying that players who use a lot of screens to shoot aren't really that good. They are, and smart players know how to use screens to get their shot off. But when we are talking about the 2nd best shooter of all time, that player should be able to make a shot at any given time in any situation, screen or not. There is a reason players who can score in isolation are in such demand. It is much harder to shoot off the dribble with a defender right up in your grill. Players who can make shots like that consistently are more dynamic shooters, and more valuable to a team in situations when the play breaks down and the shot clock is running out (which happens often). The reason Steph is considered the greatest shooter of all time is not only because he has a lot of range on his shot, but because defenders can be all over him and he can shoot from any position, and make the shot at a much higher rate than anyone else in the league. I'm not penalizing players who use screens, I'm giving an edge to players who can make shots when the screen is not there and they are shooting with a hand right up in their face.
This is pretty hard. I've watched everyone of these players except for Bird and even I have to give Larry his deserved respect. I would eliminate Kerr just due to low volume when compared to the other players. He was pretty automatic when he was in the game but the other players had to carry a larger scoring load for their teams, therefore, had to shoot more. Whose to say Kerr's % would have sustained with a higher volume. As much as I love Harden I have to take him off of the list next. I guess there's a fine line between "shooter" and "scorer" for me and Harden is in the latter category like a Kobe or MJ. He can get hot and is a master at the step back but his consistency isn't there like it is with the other players. I hate to scratch Dirk's name off next but Durant is like an evolved version of Dirk so you have to eliminate the inferior player. Nash is the next to go even though his percentages are hard to argue against and his midrange jumper coming off of a screen was automatic. My reasoning is that the volume just wasn't there. He had to set the table (and make his teammates a **** ton of money) as a point guard so he didn't have a lot of opportunities to score. Hate to do it but gotta start nit picking. Besides, if he's on the list why couldn't we consider Stockton to be on this list? I'm going to cross out Miller next because we kinda have an evolved version of Reggie with Klay right? I mean Thompson has been the 3rd best player on his team but he's still putting up 15-18 shots a night as a 3rd option while maintaining a good FG%. Miller, as the primary option, only put up 13 shots a night on average for his career. Things have changed with modern offenses but ..I don't know maybe this is the one elimination where it doesn't make a lot of sense. So now I have Thompson, Allen, Durant and Bird. It's hard because there's really not much to nitpick about now, statistically speaking. I would put it as: 1. Durant 2. Bird 3. Allen 4. Thompson Thompson is one of the greatest shooters of all time, no doubt about that. But if we're going to look at shooting as a whole (e.g. beyond just the 3s) his mid range numbers, while still pretty good, is not as great as the other 3. Bird over Allen was easy for me even without high volume 3 point shooting from Larry. I think any guy that can hit almost half of his shots from the floor while taking 20 shots a night in the 80s in an era that do not cater to perimeter shooting should be at least top 5 among all time shooters. If 3s were more of "a thing" back then I'm sure Bird would have attempted 5-6 a night and still maintain a 40%+ average. That being said, Durant is doing just that for his entire career. He's a scorer like Harden but those efficiency numbers from all over the floor is hard to dismiss.
If that is the criteria, then no one can shoot off the dribble like Durant and Bird. Harden has to be mentioned because he literally takes the hardest shot and still makes them.
I think it's 1. Curry 2. Bird 3. Thompson 4. Miller 5. Allen 5A. Durant But Bird & Durant are the two best players of the bunch.
Great analysis. I don't agree with you about Nash. I think being the guy who had to set the table should be a plus, not a minus. It adds to the difficulty. And he's one of the few in NBA history that are close to averaging the holy grail of shooting 50/40/90 the whole career. To me, Durant just isn't elite enough at the 3 to warrant a #2 place in shooting. He, like Harden, is an elite scorer but not elite enough as a shooter. In fact, anyone that does not have a career average close to or above 40% from 3 shouldn't be in the conversation, although it is a bit not fair to the older guys like Bird who played in an era when the 3pt shot was not a prominent weapon. So my choice is between Allen, Nash, and Thompson. I kind of lean away from Klay because: (1) He played with Curry. Don't want to have #1 and #2 on the same team. (2) His load as the focus of the offense isn't as heavy as Allen and Nash.
I could be swayed in any which way If you told me Klay is your #2 I wouldn't put up much of a fight. Same with Nash, Allen, Dirk etc. As for Durant, in the 14 seasons he's played he's been at or above 40% from three 6 times including this year. For a scorer like him to post those kinds of percentages is pretty damn good. He had 6 other seasons with % of at least 35%. Harden has never hit 40% or higher from 3 in his career.
Seth could be considered. Volume isn't the end all, be all, but there's gotta be something that draws the line somewhere. Otherwise, you're going to have to bring in other great shooters in NBA history that don't have the volume into the conversation for 2nd all-time. Players with career averages of: FGA per game: at or less than 10 a game 3PTA per game: at or less than 4 a game 3PT%: at or greater than 35% FG%: at or greater than 44% Kyle Korver JJ Redick Joe Ingles Joe Harris Seth Curry Dario Saric
IDK I think the second best shooter of alltime is somewhat limiting, I would do a Top 5 and Top 10. The NBA already coined Jesus Shuttlesworth as the best before Curry so it's his recognition to lose. Would hear some good choices as well. Also you have some great regular season shooters, you need Horry, Fisher in there. (Elie, Jet......) Those 2 shoots lights out in Elimination games, it ain't funny. Harden for instance is someone who makes more 3s with a hand in his face and stepping back. You could say the same things about many superstars. There should be a category for that as well. Open shooters and shooters with defenders on them.
