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[Seattle Times] Shawn Kemp attempting NBA return

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Chilly_Pete, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. reggietodd

    reggietodd Contributing Member

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    You're right, I think thats a misprint. I think it means to say Malone and Rodman. They beat the Jazz in the western conference finals and played the bulls in the finals.
     
  2. reggietodd

    reggietodd Contributing Member

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    What time do you usually see him up there?
     
  3. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  4. Bruce

    Bruce Member

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    EP- Shawn Kemp
     
  5. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    Kemp had a great Western Conference Finals in 1996 vs. Karl Malone. Kemp averaged 20 ppg and 9.7 rebounds. I haven't found Malone's WCF stats yet. I'm tired of looking, but here are his Playoff stats: 26.5 ppg, 10.3 reb, 4.4 ast, 1.9 stl. Kemp's playoffs: 20.9 ppg, 10.4 reb, 2 blk, 1.2, stl.

    From the articles I've read, it looks like Kemp did best Malone in the 7 game series. It was close in the end though and the Jazz were down by 3 points with 8.8 seconds to go and Malone missed two freethrows. Ha. That was a good read.

    I must say Shawn Kemp had a pretty fine Finals perfomance vs the Bulls averaging 24 points and 10 rebounds in a losing effort. He averaged 31 in games 1 and 2, but then the Bulls focused on him more and knocked him down to 20ppg the last 4 games. I'm sifting through articles and i think Dennis Rodman had rebounding games of 19, 20, and found this:

    The Buffalo News (Buffalo, NY), June 17, 1996 pS4
    RODMAN LET NOTHING GO BY THE BOARDS. (SPORTS) Mitch Lawrence.

    CHICAGO -- When it came to the Finals MVP, no one bothered polling George Karl.

    "Dennis Rodman won them two basketball games -- Game Two and (Sunday night)," said Karl, the Sonics' coach. "Dennis Rodman was the difference. We controlled Michael Jordan for the most part in this series. But Rodman got them the extra possessions and extra opportunities. And rebounding was the fundamental thing they did which killed us."
    Rodman stuck the knife in. He had 11 offensive boards, again tying the Finals mark and getting one fewer than the entire Sonics' team. He held Shawn Kemp to 18 points.
     
  6. Genuine

    Genuine Member

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    That was bad bro, thanks.
     
  7. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    While I'll concede that Amare is nowhere near Kemp in terms of defense and rebounding, Amare is still better even at this young age. Had he just played along at the same rate and let old age finish off his career like any other player, you wouldn't see all these ridiculous examples of revisionist history. It's just because of the sharp, sudden decline that people say "man that guy was a Hall of Famer in his prime!" It really isn't even close. He was a real nice player, but nothing great. A poor passer, didn't create for others, not a good shooter until '96, weak low post game, not a good ball handler. What he had was good defense, amazing intensity, and outrageous athleticism which led to his popularity. Athleticism usually tends to make players seem better than they really are just due to the aesthetics. Amare really isn't much better than Yao Ming (if at all) but the media would lead you to believe he is because his game just looks so much better. The comparison to Barkley is laughable. In Shawn Kemp's prime years (around 95-97), I would still take an old, fat Houston Barkley. Let's not even bring up Barkley from Philadelphia, a prime that I would stack up against the prime of ANY power forward in league history. Except for defense, Barkley was infinitely better than Kemp in every single facet of the game. Ball handling, passing, creating, low post, shooting, rebounding. I'm sure Charles would laugh if he read that article.

    Those Seattle teams didn't really have an offense. They generated offense through their defense and full court traps and extreme defensive intensity (aka illegal defense in those days). Kemp scored alot in the fastbreak. In the half court, Payton and Schrempf were the playmakers.

    Good player, but you guys are really overrating him after the shock of his drastic demise. Heck, now that I think about it, I think I would even take Yao Ming TODAY over Shawn Kemp in his prime. You atleast have to give the former constant defensive attention (sometimes with 2 or 3 guys).
     
  8. Davidoff

    Davidoff Contributing Member

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    Some pics..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    Ha, I know exactly where that is. That's the park across from West Oaks Mall in Alief, down towards the Army storage facility. That park sucks.
     
  10. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Kim, How we gonna make this trade for Miles happen?
     
  11. topfive

    topfive CF OG
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    I've got some respect now for Shawn Kemp's heart. The problem is that it's his lack of brains that has always gotten him into trouble. He's just not very good at the thinking part.

    Thanks, but no thanks. One of the things I liked about last year's Rox team was that it was a pretty smart team, or at least the main rotation was.
     
    #51 topfive, Jul 24, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2005
  12. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Contributing Member

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    "The best player on the floor" doesn't get held to 18 points in a game.

    Bill Simmons (who I love) and Karl can't stop trumpeting Shawn's performance in those Finals as some under-the-radar brilliance that nobody loves to talk about. Bollocks. All six games were on NBC, the ratings were huge, and everyone saw what Kemp did. He was great. At times, he was scary. But as a Bulls fan who would get nervous and break out in cold sweats when the SuperSonics trimmed a 24-point lead to 17, he never scared us the way Ewing (yes, even in 1996) or Shaq did that season. It wasn't close.

    Kemp was easily the most surprising player on the floor during those Finals, but he certainly wasn't the best. And those his stats may not reflect it, Payton far outpaced him when Ron Harper missed Games 3-4-5 after his knee needed to be drained. And the best player on the floor doesn't foul out with five minutes to go in the deciding game.
     
  13. CBrownFanClub

    CBrownFanClub Contributing Member

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    Seriously. I think the Sonics had us figured out, the way we sorta had the bulls figured out during that span. I think, as much as I hate to say it, George Karl had Rudy and Hakeem figured out; he pushed Dream out into the high post with this weird zone-ish thing and pretty much neutralized hakeem. it was weird; he made hakeem work in these awkward positions, it was sort of a Van gundy maneuver, all about amking you opponents feel out of sorts on offense. it worked on hakeem, he could never establish the post, and rudy could not counterattack. I think. Anyone else remember?

    Game Four when we got swept in 96 was one of the most amazing ballgames i have ever been to, the comeback, the fans, Kenny going crazy on the bench. If you are going to get swept, that's how you do it. The sonics look really relieved after winning that fourth game, they were as rattled and respectful as a 4-0 team could possibly be.
     
  14. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    All we needed was Barkley... ;)
     
  15. Da Man

    Da Man Contributing Member
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    The Sonics gave Hakeem some trouble. But I think it's a myth to say that the Sonics could control the Dream. By 1996, Hakeem wasn't quite the player he was in 1993-1995. He lost a little in the athleticism department. Most tell-tale sign is the drop in his block shot numbers to 2.9 bpg.

    In 1993, when Hakeem was really at his peak, he had no trouble dropping huge numbers against Seattle in the 2nd round. In 1996, Hakeem really struggled at the beginning of the season, averaging only 24 ppg before the Christmas game against Orlando. Hakeem was able to pour it on the last 4 months to raise his ppg to 26.9. Hakeem was so good, that even a decline in athleticism wasn't noticeable against 90% of the league. But against a tall, athletic, defensive minded team like the Sonics, it really did show. That and the fact that our supporting cast that year was pathetic against Seattle (i.e. Drexler, Cassell, and Horry; Detlef Schrempf by the way was Horry's worst nightmare).

    Of course by 1997 when we added Barkley, Hakeem went back to averaging over 20 ppg against Seattle in the 2nd round. So the 1996 fiasco was a combination of decline in athleticsm and poor supporting cast, allowing the Sonics to swarm Hak on defense.
     
  16. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    And if the Refs didn't screw the Rockets in 1993, maybe the Rockets would have beaten Seattle.

    In game #82 of the regular season, the Rockets played in San Antonio during the last year of the Hemisphere Arena (before Alamodome, before SBC Center). The Rockets were down 1 point with less than 24 seconds to go. Matt Bullard drains a 3 with a few seconds left for a 2 point lead.

    The Spurs have the last possession and AFTER time expires, David Robinson puts back a rebound tip-in to tie the game. Replays show clearly that it is way after the game is over. But in good ole imcompetent reffing form, they decide to count the basket. The Spurs go on to win in overtime.

    The Rockets end the season tied with Seattle for the 2nd best record in the West (behind Phoenix). But because Seattle held the tiebreaker, the Midwest Division Champion Rockets (after dispatching the LA Clippers in 5...that's right, the Los Angeles CLIPPERS) had to play Seattle on the road for games 1, 2, 5, and 7. The home team won every game of that series. Mad Max had a chance to win game 7, but missed. The Rockets lost what was dubbed the "Should Have Been A Home Game" game and the rest is history.

    New Owner, 2 championships...I wonder what would have happened vs the Suns in 1993. They did win in 1994 and 1995, and RudyBall was a big intensive Defensive squad with OT, Carl Herera, Mad Max, Kenny Smith, Winston Garland, Robert Horry, and Dream. Oh well. I'm glad they won 2 championships...but it would be nice to not have the Refs stick it up the Rockets' butts all the time.

    Maybe the Finley fiasco will be another catalyst. I don't know.


    And on another note, to get Darius Miles, you offer whatever the Trailblazers want (other than Yao, T-Mac, Stro, Deke) and you go one from there.
     
  17. apostolic3

    apostolic3 Member

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    You are so right about Barkley in Philly. People seem to have forgotten how good he was before he went to Phoenix.

    I think you underestimate Kemp. He only played at a high level a few years, but he was very good those years. My opinion is colored by how well he and the Sonics handled the Rockets in those days. IMO, without a doubt he was clearly better in his prime than Yao was last year. We could debate that one a long time.

    Of course, he wasn't as good as Barkley. But if he hadn't imploded after the 1996 Finals, he could have been really special. But weed, women & whining (about his contract) can bring the strongest man down. ;)
     
  18. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Contributing Member

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    "Should Have Beat the SuperSonics In the Regular Season Handily and Secured the Tie-Breaker For Playoff Positioning" doesn't quite scan as well. :D
     
  19. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Btw that Kemp video is sick - thanks for the link.
     
  20. vunny1408

    vunny1408 Contributing Member

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