Scrambling for Votes, Democrats Face Uphill Climb to Pass Healthcare Reform

But there was an election just 16 months ago. These people voted in Democrats who ran in very large part on the reform of the health care system. So these Representatives ARE doing what their consitutents asked them to do.

Certainly, the bill doesn't poll well. But people also have no idea what's in the bill. When asked if they support a public option, they say yes. When asked what it is, they don't know. When asked whether they support the Senate bill, they say no. When the Senate bill is described to them without telling them its the Senate bill, they say yes. You can't govern based on polls, especially when the people don't are in large part misinformed or uninformed about what's in the bill.

At this point in time, there simply isn't any reliable/quality polling on health care because, depending on how the question is asked, you get completely different answers. The most reliable information we have is the 2008 Election vote. If people decide they don't like health care reform, they can register that vote on 2010's elections. But Representatives are elected to govern, not to simply poll the people on very issue. If that were the purpose, we would just run the country by referendum and end up in the mess that California is in.

Civil rights legislation certainly wasn't supported by the majority in the South. The South was staunched Democratic at the time, and passing civil rights legislation is what turned it Republican overnight. All of those guys were booted out specifically for that.

 

Give em hell Jorge!

 

They are now talking about an executive order on abortion to get Stupaks (sp?) vote.

 

If this keeps up (and it has) we won't need Stupak's vote

 

I don't think they are trying for Stupak's vote. He's pretty much convinced that only his language protects the status quo on abortion, despite legal experts and pro-life groups telling him otherwise. It seems to be an ego trip for him.

I think the idea of the executive order is to placate those who are on the fence and unsure. The exec order would basically just reaffirm that the current laws on abortion will remain the laws of the land. A fairly simple solution because they can't run abortion laws through reconciliation since they aren't substantially budget related.

 

there is no funding for elective abortions anywhere in the bill

[better?]

 

then what is all the fuss about?

 

Rumors are swirling that Stupak has been satisfied and will move to the dark side.

 

Debate starts now!

 

Representative democracy isn't quite so simple that the Reprsentatives are supposed to be automotons that vote the will of their Constituents. Representatives are accountable to their constituents but that accountability is determined by elections and not by voting according to exactly how their constituents feel at any period of time. A representative is still an individual and their job is to represent what they believe is in the best interests while that often means reflecting the will of their district it can also mean leading their district in a direction that while not be popular at the moment they feel is in the best interest.

The final check still goes back to their constituents who can vote them out if the representative fails to convince the voters they acted in their best interests.

 

Upon further reflection, I think the Civil Rights bill is a little bit different because it was written to give rights to people who actually were already granted these rights under the Constitution. If anything it was sad that legislation had to written to give people rights that were already granted under the Constitution because the document makes no reference to skin color in the Bill of Rights.

This bill is different because as it is written, the Constitution does not guarantee healthcare as a right. I know a lot of people believe that it is a right so that is what this vote is about. I believe the elected officials should defer to their constituents on this matter. I personally am on the fence as to whether it is a right. I wholeheartedly support healthcare reform however I think there are a lot of flaws in this bill. I do not agree that people should be mandated to buy insurance. I do not believe this will be budget neutral no matter what the CBO says and it scares me to death this will bankrupt the country which will cause everyone to lose a lot more than healthcare. I also find it hard to believe that any serious healthcare reform legislation does not include any tort reform which by all counts would lower cost.

 

Saw on MSNBC Stupak is voting yes.

 

- Insurance companies will be prohibited from placing lifetime caps – limits on the amount of money that can eventually be paid out – on their policies.

- Children won’t be excluded from coverage due to pre-existing health conditions. Plus, children will be able to stay on their parents’ policy until age 26.

Both of these provisions will help a huge number of middle class Americans.

- Getting rid of the lifetime caps will insure that large numbers of American families aren't bankrupted paying for very expensive and essential care that keeps them and/or their children alive, and functioning members of society.

- Children being excluded from denial of insurance for pre-existing conditions will be a relief to those struggling to cover them when getting a new job after being laid off.

- That children will be able to stay on their parents’ policy until age 26 may have the widest, immediate impact on millions of American families. Unlike when I was young, huge numbers of children keep living with their parents well into their 20's. Huge numbers go to college and on to graduate school that parents are either paying for, or paying a significant amount, and while racking up debt (the parents and/or the students), getting good, inexpensive insurance is often impossible and "done without," the hope being that "they are young and hopefully won't get really sick or badly injured." Families now able to keep their kids on their insurance until they have a chance to finish school and get a good start on a career can't be overstated as a benefit for the middle class. My own 18 year old college freshman, going to school 1900 miles from home and looking to get a masters degree right away and eventually get a doctorate, will have our excellent insurance for the next several years.

Just a couple of benefits that will be felt by tens of millions. People should be excited about this, not making fools of themselves by parroting the Republican National Committee line of propaganda, not to mention the absurdities of the Limbaughs and Becks of this country.

 

The Constitution says nothing specifically about health care so the argument regarding whether health care is a right or not isn't a Constitutional question. I don't think health care is a Constitutional right but that doesn't mean that the government shouldn't deal with it. Driving a car isn't a Constitutional right but that doesn't prevent the govenment from dealing with it.

As far as bankrupting the country I am skeptical of the CBP projections myself, there are too many variables to deal with, but at the sametime our current status quo might bankrupt the country anyway. Also if we are concerned with bankrupting the country why is the healthcare the one that is going to be the primary factor in bankrupting the country? What about the fighting two wars on credit? What about all sorts of other spending? For that matter what about tax cuts that are limiting the government's ability to raise revenue?

I find it somewhat disingenuos to lay the bankrupting the country solely on health care reform when so many other things have been driving up the deficit.

 

The CBO numbers are definitely not an exact science. However we know that in the past when it comes to health care costs they have UNDERVALUED the savings. So if history is correct we will actually save more money than the CBO has projected. We already know that there are variables that will help the numbers that the CBO can't count.

 

protesters to HCR growing on the hill

 

I do not believe this is the only thing that will cause the country to go bankrupt. That is the problem. The government is currently spending OVER A TRILLION+ dollars more than it is taking in. These massive deficits are going to be going on for years to come. Like I said, I think this is going to cost a whole lot more than the projections, so it may be the straw that breaks the camels back. As far as the car goes, the government does not force you to drive or buy a car. Under this bill, it will force people to buy a service which is the first time in history such mandates have taken place.

 

You are entitled to think that it will cost a whole lot more than the projections, but there isn't any evidence to back this up.

History has shown that the savings related to health care have been Under Estimated by the CBO in the past. The CBO looked all the information they could, and this is the best data we have.

You can base your concerns on the facts or on what you personally feel.