And the second one he broke his leg and was out the entire season. SamFisher, I'm sure we agree. Let's not fall into semantics. My main point I think is still very valid...one big difference that often goes unmentioned when comparing the two: MJ was much faster than LeBron off the dribble....much better first step and the ability to dribble laterally to lose his defender. LeBron is bigger and stronger, though. So, he should be able to be the better post player...
I hate how MJ's legend has just massively increased because everyone says something or people watch highlights. Honestly, I never got to see vintage MJ. I am too young, but here are my critiques. 1. If the guy's will to win was so great, why did it take him so long to win a championship. You would think that if he doesn't need that much help (Lebron's biggest criticism), he would have more than 6. 2. He is the most athletic and mentally tough player ever. I beg to differ. Clyde and Dominique were considered equally as athletic as MJ. People say Lebron was the most physically and athletically gifted player ever. People say Shaq was too fast for his size. If you want to believe these things, believe one of them because they contradict each other if you say someone is the most athletic. 3. People only remember MJ's good moments like buzzer beaters, etc. The guy also had some ****ty moments where he got punked. HE WASN'T GOD ALL THE TIME. I understand Lebron hasn't been God 24/7 either, but don't you think that 5 years after he retires, no one will remember the Heat-Mavs Final just like no one remembers MJ losing in 1995 in the playoffs. Seriously, Lebron isn't the best. I honestly don't believe MJ is the best. I've played basketball my entire life and I know for a fact that if anyone gets hot, its over and there is no amount of competitiveness (Which i have an abundance) that will stop someone that is just having a good day. Out of 10 games, I give 5 to Lebron and 5 to MJ. TL;DR: STOP OVERHYPING BOTH PLAYERS
So how then would you know his legend is falsely increasing from word of mouth or highlights? Go download full games of his in his prime. They are out there. It's a team game no matter what. MJ still had competitive teams that just couldn't get past legendary teams in Boston and Detroit. He didn't leave to go team up with Clyde Drexler and another all star. He gets and deserves a lot of credit for Scottie and Horace developing. Regarding more than 6. Outside of Houston, everyone thinks he could have 9 in a row. I don't believe it. I think they could have beat the 94 Rockets. But, not the 95 Rockets. I know he played that year in playoffs, but were talking about him not being away from the game for 2 years. 99 lockout season, very few believe the Spurs would have beat them if they got together for a final run. Many sources out there have MJ as the highest vertical(along with dude from Utah, name slips my mind. Dantley?) at 48 inches. That's a lot higher than any of the guys you mentioned. Could it be false info? Possibly. But when you watch Michael and the way he floats in the air, and how he can be level with the rim jumping from the freaking free throw line, its not hard to believe. As far as speed. Nique and Drexler have nothing on MJ. Drexler was regarded as sort of an equal to MJ prior to meeting in the Finals. Clyde was destroyed. Discussing who is the most athletic is just opinion and point of view. I agree that for the very reasons people say it's LBJ, why then wouldn't Shaq be the best at 7'1 and 350lbs and could move like he was 260? He wasn't God all the time. Of course not. But he was damn near god every time on the biggest stage. And then when you have one of the greatest players of all time saying he was god disguised as MJ..well.. Comparing LBJs faliures in the Finals is nothing like the Bulls losing in 95. Mike was gone from bball for 2 years. It's obvious when he comes back and wins 72 games and another three-peat that it would have been a different story had he never retired at only 30 or 31 years old. Who is the best then? Of course anyone can get hot. MJ has lost to Michael Finley at a game of 1on1 i think. Who cares about 1 on 1? Basketball is 5 on 5 and that's where LBJ's strengths are anyway. This whole 1 on 1 thing is silly to me. I bet prime T-Mac could smoke Lebron in 1 on 1 9 out of 10 times. Does that make him better? Thats fair. But, like i said. Who truly cares about 1 on 1 especially when you start talking about guys who play different positions and sizes. Neither player is overhyped. One has been regarded as GOAT status after his first 3 peat already. The other is on his way to possibly being top 2-4 greatest all time. Do yourself a favor and download all of MJ's championships. Even when his shot wasn't falling, he would find his teammates and he was every bit the passer as Lebron is with the same vision(MJ avg'd a triple double for 10 out of 11 games the only time he played pg in his career. Could be 9 out of 10 though, have to look it up) to get his team mates going b4 taking over at the clutch. Hell, if you start in order. Game 1 of the first champ, his shot missed to win the game. That ball touched every part of the rim b4 coming out. Game 3, he was missing everything b4 turning it on int he clutch. You just gotta watch him every play in every game. You might have made up your mind that you don't like him. But, at least you can say you watched some of prime MJ. You know what? **** it. I'll look into uploading them all on youtube tomorrow.
1 on 1 hypotheticals has to be the dumbest barometer in determine who's a better player. that's like referencing the nba all-star skills challenge to determine the best point guard.
This. MJ was his superhero. He has a photoshopped picture of Michael guarding him (screensaver on his phone).
He doesn't look any better than Kobe to me in those highlights. Also, the competition looked incredibly slow. To me, the difference was Michael with time running out. Kobe is good too, but Jordan had this way of always making sure his team was in it and then he'd make sure they took it home late. The athleticism with length in today's game is unmatched in the history of the NBA, but the fundamentals with equal athleticism to today's guys is what made Jordan so incredible. Kobe just never got the fundamentals down quite like Jordan. Body control from Jordan in the air has never been duplicated. The only Lebron argument worth making is talking about how well he plays all-around. The difference in the "all-around" isn't really that significant. Lebron averages about 1 assist and 1 more rebound per game. And Lebron hasn't gone thru the twilight of his career yet where those averages start declining.
Doesn't look any better than Kobe? What do you mean? Jordan averaged 5 more ppg and shot 5% better from the field (which is pretty impressive. kobe's 45 to Jordan's insane 50%)
80's to early 90's MJ was incredibly quick and fast. It was unfair. Put that against LeBron and I don't think he has a chance 1 on 1. People forget how strong MJ was in addition to his quickness. One wrong move and it's a dunk.
I just want to put something in perspective. Lebron is the same size as Karl Malone and an inch shorter than Dream. He weighs the same as both of them in their prime at 260 pounds. Think about that the next you see him covering a PG or taking someone on the dribble. No one other than Wilt Chamberlain was as physically freakish as Lebron.
so lebron went from 6-8 250 to 6-10 260? Karl Malone was 6-9, Hakeem 6-11 but always listed 7 Karl may have a lot of sources saying he was same weight as Lebron, but theres no freaking way thats true of 30+Karl Malone compared to Lebron now. Dwade is even more built. Lebron is a powerful lean build.(i honestly believe he's closer to 240) But, yes he is a freak athletically.
Thanks for putting that in perspective. Now think about him trying to stay in front of one of the quickest and most explosive SG's of all time. Yeah, he wouldn't be able to. People make a big deal out of LeBron guarding Derrick Rose for a few possessions and having limited success. Let's not pretend however that LeBron can consistently keep quick players in front of him. It doesn't happen.
It bothers me to see so many people use the "defenses were tougher in MJ's era" and "today's NBA is watered down" arguments, when both couldn't be further from the truth. First of all, harder fouls =/= tougher defense. The pace was faster, teams scored far more, and defenses were far more simple schematically than teams like today's Spurs, Bulls, Pacers and Grizz. Look at the Bad Boy Pistons, who have reached a near-mythical status as a defensive powerhouse. They were amongst the league-leaders in PPG allowed with 104, 101 and 99 ppg in their Finals runs from '87-'90. Their DRtg (adjusted to 100 possessions) was considerably worse than the best defensive teams today. If you watch a game from the era, you'll notice even more easy baskets, worse perimeter D, and a few harder fouls. Also, MJ has been completely deified by the general public, as if he could do no wrong. I watched him quite a bit, and while his will to win and natural talent was incredible, he wasn't "untouchable" in his time. He did achieve a ton, and rightfully earned the top spot amongst the greats, but to act like he was near-perfect is shameful. LeBron has a long way to go before touching MJ in terms of his legacy, but purely as a player, he's right there with him. People will begin to notice this as he racks up the titles -- I just hope they don't resort to the faulty arguments listed above.
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I don't get why people try to continually diminish the impact of hand-checking. When the defender can legally impede your movement by pushing you back, that makes it pretty tough to score.
Lets not be revisionist here. It didn't allow defenders THAT much leeway. It just allowed a little more contact. This allowed many players to play lazier D, and help-D/rotations were far worse. Re-watch games from that era: easy, uncontested shots all over the place. And how do you explain the far higher PPP (points per possession) then?
Your post became invalid after here. How can you make a fair assessment of a guy you didn't watch? Hahahahahahaha
Why are we talking about LeBron having to guard Jordan or vice versa? The fact is, neither of them could guard each other. No one could guard either guy one on one. It's a lot more meaningful to discuss which player is better in terms of helping his team win. Not how they would do one on one against each other. The one thing that would not have affected LeBron much was hand checking. How many perimeter defender would be strong enough to impede LeBron with their hands? And you sounded like hand checking means pushing. That's not true at all. You couldn't use your hands to push, hit, or shove. That was a foul. Remember how Jordan got all the calls when the defender just LOOKED LIKE he was pushing? Hand checking was putting your hand on the man's body.
