I think in some cases tithing has been required for membership but in most religious organizations it seems to at least be heavily encouraged. For instance I get hit up for donations even at my local Zen Center.
I just finished the Rolling Stone article. It sounds like a very seasoned sales pitch from the very beginning. The fact that on the 1st visit they are asking you to buy something and on the 2nd or 3rd visit they are asking for 1000's of dollars. Any religion that would, in any way, exclude the poor is wrong. Any religion that hides its deepest truths is wrong. Any religion that refuses to talk about it's deepest beliefs is wrong. Comparing Scientologies selling of services to tithing at a local church is also just wrong. At any true Christian church if you give nothing -- ever no one is going to kick you out of the church, stop you from participating in church events, or deny you access to it's beliefs. I would love to hear a rebuttal from Scientologists -- but if this article is true they aren't allowed to debate their beliefs. That alone is wrong -- if you can't debate / question your beliefs how can you grow in them?
wow! if a case is ever to be made against scientology this is exhibit A. these guys actually scared me a bit - they seemed totally brainwashed. tom cruise could tell these stooges to murder the guy and they would probably do it. "have fun on the ferris wheel"
I don't know of any church, temple, mosque, that require tithing to be there. They do encourage it to pay the bills but I don't know anyone that has been turned away because they don't have any money. I bet if you go to any of these places and ask for a bible, koran, or book or mormon, they will send you home with one for free.
^ That is something our church is pretty good at - not asking for money. We don't even pass an "offering plate". They don't want to give visitors the wrong impression. And they believe it's between Christians and God when and how much they should give.
Isn't that pretty much what you think about all religions? honestly...I read that article(someone post a link so I can re-read it )..adn it sounds like a money-making enterprise that some have taken entirely too seriously. L Ron said it himself...Religion is where the money is at.
Ironically a lot of information about scientology came out because one gay claimed that the church ordered him to murder someone. A lot of these stories about xenu and what not came out because the guy entered it as evidence in a trial. For a while, the church would actively go to the court and check out the materials so no one else could see it until one lady waited day and night for the exact moment to snatch it and photocopy it at the court so it could get posted on the internet.
Playing devil or Tom Cruise's advocate here. Scientology doesn't totally exclude the poor and as the Rolling Stone article indicated it does give followers who aren't that rich an opportunity to advance by working for the Church. At the sametime the issue of the mysteriousness of what Scientology is about isn't a new thing and for most of human history many religions kept core mysteries hidden from laity, according to some conspiracy theorists the Catholic Church still does that. In many religions it was considered dangerous for laity or the unintiated to know, practice or even be in the most sacred areas and priests were required to mediate the power of the deity along with translate the sacred knowledge for everything else. For instance Tantric practices in Tibet were forbidden for all but a select few who were properly initiated in them while Catholic masses were only delivered in Latin and not understood to the vast majority of Medieval Europeans. A hierarchical view of religion isn't something new and its only that information has been greatly democratized and modern culture more rational and skeptical has it been expected that religions would not keep primal mysteries. In regard to paying many religions have required tithing or some other giving to the religious institution and in Medieval Europe tithes were enforced by law. What Scientologists are doing though isn't even a tithe but charging people for the participating in religious practices. This is also not something unique since the Catholic Church onces sold indulgences and even now in many religions oftentimes the most fervent blessings are bestowed upon those who give the most generously. The Scientologists doctrine and mythos are new but nothing they are doing is necessarily new or unique and similar actions have been done by every major religion.
I agree that other religions have done similiar things --- and they were just as wrong when they did them. I can only discuss this from a Christian stand point (because that's what I know) The Catholic pracitce of "indulgences" was one of the main catalysts for the Luther's Protestant movement. It is not an excepted practice. The practice of denying people access to "sacred areas" is also an un-Christian practice. That veil was torn at Christ's death -- no "knowledge" is hidden from anyone seeking it. Similiar actions may have been done by misguided or greedy people in the name of religion but I would meet any of these practices with equal disdain in any organization. Justifying Scientology by saying other people have done things just as bad in the past is just wrong.
Not saying there's a wrong or right about it but pointing out that what Scientologist have done isn't unique and if you look at the course of human history religions have more often behaved like Scientology than not. As non-Scientologists its easy for us to make a negative judgement call on Scientology but as a religion it is a matter of belief. What I see people criticizing Scientology on have applied to most major religions. If you believe a ritual will save your soul then you will gladly pay for it. If you believe that only through an initiation process can you gain secret empowering knowledge you will pay for it. It seems strange and wrong to us because we don't believe it. OTOH we find it perfectly acceptable to believe that a man 2000 years ago was executed and then rose from the dead and belief in that will save our immortal soul. Or for others that by chanting "Oh Mi To Fo" that we can escape the cycle of physical suffering. Religion isn't rational and what seems strange and wrong to us is of the utmost rightness to believers.
agreed! Over human history many people have used religion for personal gain. Scientology is just another example.
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While I would agree that Scientology's practices are entirely new in comparison to other religions, I'd say they seem to take those practices a little too far. For instance, while other religions do encourage tithing or donations (even the Catholic Church required it at one time I believe), it is mostly to keep the church functioning. None would require you to donate money just to learn and grow in your faith. I got an overwhelming feeling from reading the article that the Church of Scientology is nothing more than a self-help seminar or informercial; a bait and scam. And I'm willing to bet most religions don't completely divulge everything about their faith. For instance there are many Gospels that aren't included in the Bible. And I'm sure most average Joe Catholics will never know what exactly goes on behind the doors of the Vatican. The selection process of a new Pope in fact is kept secret. But the core ideals, prinicipals, beliefs and practices are NEVER kept secret at any time. It's something you continually learn about through (in Catholicism) the Sacraments, CCE, Adult Scripture Study and other prayer groups and ministries. All are open to anybody willing to learn more about their faith. And I can't think of any religion outside of Scientology that is so guarded about their faith; that goes to such lengths to keep its beliefs secret. That should be a red flag right there. Most religions have hundreds if not thousands of years on Scientology. And most religions have gone through rough stretches, where you could look back and question the righteousness of their actions (like Scientology now). And most religons do have a hierarchal structure and sort of ascension process through which you learn the faith. Catholicism for example has the Sacraments (Baptism, Communion, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Marraige, Annointing of the Sick and Holy Orders). But again here, these levels in other churches do not require you to pay the church to reach them and they're not kept a guarded secret. But really Scientology is not a reilgion at all, despite what Scientologists may say. L. Ron Hubbard is no god, nor a messiah; he's not even a prophet. He was a science fiction writer that wrote a self help book that gained instant popularity in a world where people often look for the quick fix. And his life seemed far from Holy. And he said it himself, its all about the money.
