SamFisher: On the optimism going in -- again, it wasn't reflected in the predictions. As far as not expecting Ming to make an impact -- I think the Ming and Posey additions had a negative effect on team chemistry (obviously). While Ming posted good numbers, the team had trouble adjusting to his presence. I think this is normal and will work itself out as the team has more time together. I think the current team needs at least ONE training camp and preseason with Ming and Posey before calling it all a failure. On the losing to bad teams -- I think this is overblown. Teams got up to play the Rockets this year, moreso than almost ANY team in the league (the Ming factor). If you look at the overall record, I think it reflects about how good the team is right now. If they were able to beat good teams AND bad teams, they would be the best team in the league. Of course, that's not the case. Why is it underachieving when they lose to bad teams, but not overachieving when they beat good teams? People seem to always have to put a negative spin on it. I think it's already been pointed out (in other threads) that O'Neal and Bryant had multiple years together before those changes were made, as opposed to Francis and Ming having only one season less training camp/preseason.
It has to be a mixture of both. You have to have a good solid system, but you also have to have some players to play in it. The system is the foundation for everyone on the team. The triangle is a paasing offense designed for cuts,back doors and movement, Of course you have to have players to run it like anyone else. The triangle lakers run is similar, but not the same chicago ran with Jordan because of personnel.What the triangle does is get people moving around and touching the ball without denyineg the superstars in Kobe and shaq. Sacramento,Utah,NJ and free flowing teams like that can get going quickly and don't have to look over to the coach for plays which slows up the offensive team. When Fisher or Kobe gets the ball, they advance it with a pass, move to the opposite side, set a back pick , move and what not. Very rarely will you see la make 1 pass and take a shot unless Shaq pins his defender under the net or something. Not to start a Rudy bashing, but his system has always been easy because the player or players he had.Hakeem in his prime, then a hungry Clyde, then a hungry Barkley. The true litmus test about Rudy's system was in 95. Had it not been for a trade, and another loss by Seattle, I doubt that the Rockets would have repeated. Once Clyde started showing signs of slowing up and instead of evolving a game plan to use a playmaker like Cassell, the Rockets traded for Barkley. Once that magical run in 97 came to a end, the Rockets reloaded with some young players, but were still running the same system. Now it seems the team is stuck into what kind of system to use which is why the offense struggles so much. Francis shouldn't have to look to the sideline for a set or play everytime down the floor. This flaw is called mico-management which is never good in basketball. This 5 man offense that was suppose to be implemented the injury yr but wasn't because of the youth an injuries would be going into its 3rd yr if not for that excuse. Players win ball games, but systems help with foundation. Look how many teams in the nfl use the west coast offense. Many of the teams that use it are successful or at least effecient in offense. Many people will knock the triangle offense with Chicago, but when their young players start to mature , they will have a good foundation for teamwork and passing, something the Rockets have no clue about.
I agrree Ming and Posey are not a failure and they need one more training camp, I agree 100%. A new training camp and a new offense that is acutally implemented and run, like was promised last year. I also agrree that it is overacheiving when the rockets beat teams that were, both talent and record wise, better than them. They didn't do it that much though. I guess the suns count, though they were in the end, one game better; They went 2-2with the lakers (twice shaqless), and split two with Sac; got run out of the building by Dallas, dropped 3 out of 4 to SA, dropped 3 of 4 to the creaking jazz, and split with Minnesota, and either split or went 1-3 against portland, I don't recall. So I don't see a whole lot of overacheiving going on there. Their roster of surprising wins certainly pales in comparison with the litany of disappointing losses that I catalogued earlier.
Freak, You are simply wrong dude. KT is a great example...his number with the sixers are about equal because he had an adjustment period. During the last month he has been averaging around 16 points and 12 rebounds. Not because he plays in the East, but because he plays on a TEAM with a TEAM oriented offense. (never thought I would say that about Iverson's team). The Rockets system sucks...it is broken. It only worked when we had the ABSOLUTE best player in the game to rely on when things went badly. We don't have that anymore...we have a very talented center who is used to playing the team game, and a bunch of play ground one on one players who have no concept of playing as a team. The Rockets coaching has been less then adequate...why do you think a player like Boki who has been succesful in professional leagues playing a team game does not get minutes? Because he is not an ISO type player. Rudy milks a situation until it doesn't work anymore...well....guess what....his system doesn't work anymore. It is time to go to a more team oriented offense with screens, cuts, picks etc...etc... Look at Dallas, their offense is EXACTLY what we should be running. DD
Once again i agree with you DD. Just like Langhi before and pippen before, Rudy has tried to take team ,moving players and turn them into iso players which is the worse. I always liked Thomas because he does play hard every night, but I think some of his problems were due to Rudy. I never thought Kt should ever iso on anyone in the west, yet thats what Rudy used to do with him. In philly, he's getting his points like he's suppose to and thats good for him. Other than the fast break, Francis and mobley runs the worse pick and rool I've seen. They never set their man up with the pick then most times they pass up an easy shot for the roll man for a more difficult between the legs , espn shot that could have been avoided. Speaking of Boki, sometimes i go back and watch some of those highlights they had of him from his Benetton team and wonder how and why this guy didn't play at all. I mean he was attacking the basket, getting out on the reak and everything, but when he did play for us, he just got farthest from the ball and waited. I'm kind like you DD, the system and coaching is just broke.
Yes, those ill-fated pick and rolls drove me insane! especially because they were actually working in November and December, Yao was moving to the basket, steve or mooch would pass off to him, easy dunk or lay in. Then for some unknown reason, they just stopped passing off after the all star break. Uggh, just drove me insane!
Let's see. All that cutting and moving in Denver, and Posey could only shoot 37 percent. In the stand-around, boring, iso, dribble-dribble offense of the Rockets, Posey was able to somehow shoot 44 percent. Since KT and Posey obviously both had 'adjustment periods', let's also look at Posey's numbers in April: 14 pts, 8 reb, 50% FG, 41% 3p I guess the Rockets' 'system' works for some people. I guess Boki probably could have put up better numbers than that, though. pgabriel: I'm not sure why you're giving me regular season records. Okay, here's some more: Rockets' record vs. Spurs, '95: 0-4 Lakers' record vs. Sonics, '01: 0-4
I just think if you look at a guy like Posey, he could play the role similar to what Doug Christie does for SAC. He plays good defense, passes and moving without the ball and whatnot. Of course some teams have your numbe like Dallas does with us, but this team isn't playing to its strong points. This team never traps at all, never run a break, or very rarely get good high percentage shots. A open shot 24ft from the basket doesn't count because we all know the game is played inside out. Teams will give you that shot because of the percentages. Square pegs in rd holes is the best way to describe it.
TheFreak, that is retarted. C'mon now. In Denver Posey was ASKED to be "the man" and he clearly does not have those types of skills. On the Rockets Posey was the 5th option and was given the freedom of being more open because of Yao and Francis. He clearly should get better numbers here via the surrounding talent alone! The Rockets system work(ed) well in the past. The Past. Time for a new system.
Freak sez : "Rudy is the bestest coach! I wuv 'im. All arguments prove losing is winning and failing is good! Just give them more time!" People with eyes say : "Where do you buy your crack?"
lol! freak just believes that our players just aren't that good. and that our two best players just aren't good enough, yet, to carry us to the playoffs....no matter who's coaching or what system they use.
That's actually not "nuff said!" That shows exactly that system doesn't produce wins. Denver sucked every single year Posey was there. Maybe they should have exploited McDyess a little bit more. When we read about the Kings offense, there is a tendency to forget that many teams like Denver run (or attempt to run) more complicated systems...and they fail miserably. Golden State has been running motion for a few years (before Musselman). Minnesota can't get out of the 1st round with their motion. btw: Philly did not have a lot of ball movement when they made it to the Finals. imso, it is more players than system. I also strongly believe that Dallas quite often runs sets identical to Rudy's sets. Watch them. They don't have a huge amount of motion on the weakside. There are plenty of sets were they don't move until the strong side gets the defense to commit. I believe Don Nelson and Rudy think a lot alike in their belief of spacing systems that rely heavily on dribble penetration. The difference is that Dallas players do not fart around with the ball. They make quicker decisions, but the system is very similar. I love motion systems. I believe they are the best thing. But I also respect NBA defenses a great deal. Defenses know how to disrupt motion, and bad motion can bust very easily. I also strongly believe that Francis doesn't have a chance in hell running one, so what are you really going to accomplish trying to get him to. It will take different players, no? Don't we argue that over and over?
I can't even believe you just compared Don Nelson's offense to Rudy T's. I used to take your posts very seriously, but now I have to wonder. And one more note, you are right Denver's players suck. So they could be coached by Red Auerbach and John Wooden as the assistant. It wouldn't matter.
You are not the first who has balked at my comparison of Dallas to what I believe Rudy is trying to do. I'm constantly surprised by this. I'm not comparing Dallas to the Rockets. I'm comparing what I believe is the underlying system/coaching philosophy. If you can look past what the players are doing, and look at the system only....that is what I'm attempting to do. Clearly, Dallas is not running a Kings or a NJ system, right? You want to help me describe Dallas? They are not a motion system. I'm breaking them down in terms of main categorization of systems. I can pull a quote of Don Nelson saying that they have only 5-6 plays, just a bunch of reads off it. The system uses spacing, high PnRs, dribble penetration to aggressively attack the defense to get them to commit, and then the ball movement starts. I do definitely see some more picking going on on some sets, but that isn't as common as the high PnR they use with Nowitzki. Once a team oils the main part of their system, adding to it becomes easier. Our problem is Francis has trouble getting the first part of the system to work...the high PnR. btw: I have heard Jim Boylen yell, "pick for the picker" quite often. That is thinking on the court and making reads. I believe it is also one of the fundamental differences we are seeing in the 76ers and us. We seem incapable of getting our team to operate together and "pick for the picker." sigh
Maybe it will maybe it won't. KT became a decent "motion" type player when he left, whereas here, he was a back-in, back-in, back-in jump hook, or spot up and brick. I think that since it hasn't really been tried with these players (rudy's fault? maybe or maybe he tells them to and they won't, in which case its their fault), who knows? I agree that some of them are a bad fit, such as Mobley, Moochie and maybe even Taylor. But we've got pieces who are capable of moving without the ball in Posey, Griffin, (Rice used to be able too), Yao, and allegedly Nachbar, but seldom ever do. What signals to me that there may be a coaching/strategy/schem problem is that I just don't think that there is a bigger misuse of Yao then to dump off the ball to him 15 feet away in the left low block and let him go one on on. Rudy felt comfortable doing that to Charles and Hakeem because that was their game, that was what they did. Yao, however, doesn't seem that comfortable that way, and it seems to negate his size (neither of which was Hakeem or Charles strength), and passing (sure, he got the occasional dump off to the passer who cut, but that well dried up by March). Therefore, it looks like Rudy is trying, as somebody else pointed out, to put a round peg in a square hole; not adjusting his system to the player, and instead trying to do it the other way around. That is a huge mistake IMO.
It all starts with Iverson. Larry Brown has been preaching for years that Iverson has to play the right way. Don't you think Larry has been struggling with this? KT isn't vital enough to make a system work. Francis and Iverson have to do it. Like I say, when you hear Jim Boylen yelling "pick for the picker" and the team can't seem to do it, or they end up bumping into each other, that's is often a problem with bad tempo throughout the team. If Francis crosses over a guy 3 times before penetrating...it's like...hell, I wouldn't know when to move or go set a pick, either.
absolutely, though I should be cautious than to use the sixers and thomas and iverson as the ideal for francis even though the parallels are there, mostly because they got whupped by the H-town Iso's twice this year! Eastern conference comparisons are tricky that way.....
One thing that drives me absolutely bugfock is our inability to set hard firm picks. We set the weakest picks in all of semi-organized basketball, amateur or pro. I have seen better picks set in pick up games at Grady elementary school. This further underscores the fact that we have no teachers on our team. Hell, just roll tape of one Utah Jazz quarter of play. AAAAAHHHHHHH. The pick is so weak that there is no spacing advantage gained by the man with the ball. All that happens is that we set a weak pick, get pushed farther from the basket, eat up valuable clock time, and wind up with an iso . . . right back where we started. AAAAAHHHHHH. I can't watch that garbage any more. We need some freaking thugs to set picks. We need to implement fines for weak picks. HP, you're a pretty good technician. I'd like to hear your critique of the Rox pick and iso.
Matt Harpring. How did people explain this guy's numbers this year in Utah if basketball system is unimportant?
