gee, why bother starting Schaub next year then? TJ Yates is clearly much better since he's got a playoff win.
The stupidity of "hes won a playoff game and therefore he is better" will never never cease to amaze me.
so using people logic here you think Eli is better than Marino because: Manning: 2 superbowls, 1 ring. Marino: 1 superbowl, 0 rings.
Dude, you make zero sense. No nintendo. Who the hell brought up Marino? The debate is Eli and Schaub. I honestly don't care if schaub narrowly beats Eli's numbers. Eli is still the better QB
Great. I never wear a seatbelt, but I've never been hurt. I'll gladly eat crow when and IF I end up in a hospital after a car accident. Saying I'll happily concede doesn't suddenly make my argument anymore valid or add anything to the discussion
Im just pointing out that argument of playoffs wins and superbowl wins are not good comparing two individuals. you need to look at the stats.
WTF does Dan Marino have anything to do with this? He's a legend and one of the greatest players to ever play in the NFL and a surefire top 5 QB all time. Since you brought up Marino... He has some of the greatest all time stats EVER. Does Schaub come anywhere close to that? NO. F**K NO. Not even if he played another 20 years. Marino did everything but win a superbowl. Matt Schaub is injury prone, has slightly better regular season numbers than Eli and he's never even sniffed the playoffs. He's not on Eli's level and you're a fool for mentioning Marino. Quit embarrassing yourself.
It's not just A playoff game. Its a plethora.... 7 to be exact. In addition to A Superbowl and quite possibly another. Even if Eli only won one playoff game.. he'd still be better than Schaub because of it.
put eli at fifth, michael vick does not belong there. followed by big ben at sixth, schaub at 7th followed by stafford. just look at the quaterback rating. It does not lie. It's a very accurate stat. Give that rating a top five defense and all of the sudden you have the best freaking team in the afc. But that's not enough. What do people want?
Schaub finally had a complete enough team to make the playoffs last year...it was unfortunate that he got hurt and couldnt play, but he clearly would have won a minimum of 1 playoff game...and there would have been a decent chance that the Texans would still be playing had Schaub not been injured. Winning a playoff game is one of the most overrated things in sports. Mark Sanchez sucks...but he's won a handful of playoff games. Means absolutely nothing.
if matt was healthy all season we would have won a super bowl this year i guarantee that. even with jacoby spotting the ravens a td.
I am stunned that people walk this earth, after million of years of evolution, and still are unable to think logically and rationally. It's simple, the point of mentioning Marino was to show how flawed the logic is that some of you are using. It's not that difficult of a thing to understand. Obviously sense and reason has left this thread so I will as well.
Ironically, Montana did blow and his knee, and was traded away from the team. Let's say Young came in earlier, around 87 and 88 as a starter. The 49ers still do well, during the season, but here comes proverbial playoff monkey that jumps on Young's back once again. They'd probably beat Minnesota, but going up to Solider Field to play the Monsters of the Midway for playoff game. I hate to say this, because Steve Young was like my favorite QB of all of time, but he didn't thrive in those type of games, often. Montana did not get rattled as much as he did. You realize that the Niners only reached Super Bowl once with Steve Young as starter, and remember they had homefield in 92, 95, and 97. He only has 85.8 QB rating in the playoffs vs. Montana's 95.6 QB rating. Montana had 12 playoff games (23 games as starter) with at least 100+ QB rating. Young only had 6 (including one game as a sub, 14 as a starter). 45-21 ints for Montana vs. Young's 19-12 (in 14 playoff starts). Montana totaled 31 4th quarter comebacks and 34 game winning drives vs. Young's 1 You kind of mocked me for bring up the eye test, yet stats also show that Young had several no-show performances in the playoffs. They only beat Dallas and Green Bay once a piece in the playoffs. 2-5. Another thing about those five losses, six, if include Atlanta, the 49ers were really never in the game in most of those contest. Another thing is the quality of teams they beat in the playoffs from what I've seen the only really good team Young beat the playoffs was 1994 Cowboys (2x defending Super Bowl Champion, who people say was the weakest in 92-95 run. Another stat that should mean something, Young never beat a team with a better record than the Niners in the playoffs. The 49ers with Montana beat 81 Cowboys, 84 Dolphins, and 88 Bears, while he won few road games in the playoffs. Also in his first two Super Bowls, he didn't have great skill players, like Rice, Taylor, Watters, Craig,Jones, or Owens. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00/gamelog/post/ http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MontJo01/gamelog/post/ On one hand, you could say Schaub hasn't had the same chances as Eli. Yet, Eli has reached the playoffs 3 times, while his defense was in the bottom portion of the league (2005, 2006, 2011). I should go ahead and say I do not think Eli is an elite QB, but a very good QB, though, like Schaub, but in different way. Schaub is a terrific passer, like Trent Green How many more pieces does Schaub need to win? Does he need roster that has overwhelming talent on both sides of the ball? This one is funny, but you might be too young to remember that Elway reached the Super Bowl, three times without a star skill player around him . He did it without Terrell Davis, and did not skill players close to the ability of Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, and Arian Foster. Moreover, Elway was already Hall of Fame bound, like his excellent peers, but he wouldn't have had Super Bowl, like Kelly, Marino, and Moon. Schaub could play as well as he has the last three season for the next 5 to 8 years and win a Super Bowl. I'm not sure that he's a Hall of Fame, while if he doesn't win one. He's definitely not a Hall of Fame player. Players, like Rodgers, Brees, and Manning, if they were winless, they'd still be in, like previous players. My biggest point about Elway's numbers are the same things that you are trying to build Matt Schaub's up with TD/INT ratio, YPA, QB rating, and passing efficiency. There are and were QBs who bettered Elway in some of those numbers, Sonny Jurgensen, Neil Lomax, Bernie Kosar, Warren Moon, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Jim Kelly. Speaking of Trent Green again, he was a really good QB with the Chiefs. Really good numbers, I'd say very comparable to Schaub (though I honestly think he was slightly more clutch). Then compare him to Kurt Warner, he loses, and it's not necessarily all on numbers. When it comes to intangibles, he blows Green away. In my opinion, Warner was an elite QB. You look at the Rams and Chiefs under Green, they could Yet in all of Schaub's very good performances, the Texans can never get to the playoffs (except this year), while I guess I should pretend he is the only QB in the league right now or throughout history to have bad or mediocre defense. Some people have even argued that Tim Tebow got to the playoffs with a very flawed defense. The Titans, Bucs, Jags, and Browns, yeah really impressive. Lost against the Raiders, Saints, and Ravens. Keep it in context. Look at what Eli has done in 4th Quarter over the last 5 years, just take close look at how many points the Giants were giving up. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=MannEl00 Compare those comebacks against some of the losses of Texans under Matt Schaub: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00/gamelog/2007/ http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00/gamelog/2008/ http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00/gamelog/2009/ http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00/gamelog/2010/ http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00/gamelog/2011/ You were making it sound like Schaub was playing flawlessly for whole game, maybe even incredible in some of these games when he wasn't, while alot of these games were winnable and the defense was keeping them in some of those games. While in Eli's case, he's games were all over the place, some were outstanding, while others were really bad, yet he could help his team to victory, regardless. In that aspect of the game, he compares favorably to other really good QBs, and maybe one of the best in NFL history, most likely. Eli is exceptionally amazing in the 4th quarter. That stands out, while his numbers are above average, if he finishes with 2 or more Super Bowls. You have to give him a look. I just showed whole pages of actual game performances (over a seasons) with statistics in those games, I am not cherry picking. My biggest point to you is that difference between Schaub and Eli is this. Schaub exists as a very good consistent QB, nothing more or less. Eli is a good to very good QB, who can elevate his game enough to win games. That's what all of those stats are showing. Yes, Schaub is more consistent (I never said he wasn't), throws few less interceptions,and higher completion percent. Yet, look at how many of those games the Texans lost in 4th Quarter, while a game was necessarily running away from them. Of course, there's also an aspect of intangibles, I must ask you this, do you think Schaub possess above average intangibles or play-making ability, not only compared to Eli, but to other QBs, like Rivers, Stafford, Big Ben, Vick, Ryan, Romo, and Cutler. He doesn't have that edge to his game, while he hasn't really elevated his team's level of play or success in the same way those other QBs, except maybe Cutler. I think most of the QBs above could've made the playoffs a couple of times with the Texans roster in five years, out of the group, Cutler is the only one I'm unsure about. Few examples, Peyton Manning: Indianapolis Colts Dan Marino: Miami Dolphins John Elway: Denver Broncos Drew Brees: New Orleans Saints (healthy) Matt Stafford: Detroit Lions Adrian Peterson (healthy): Minnesota Vikings Tom Brady: New England Patriots (I doubt they would've won more than 8 games without him, especially with that defense). Ben Rothelisbergerittsburgh Steelers Michael Vick: Atlanta Falcons/Philadelphia Eagles (both teams were not very good without him) Darrelle Revis: New York Jets Ray Lewis (in his prime): Baltimore Ravens Ricky Williams: Miami Dolphins Pretty much any top 15 NBA player (like Wilt, Kareem, Magic, MJ, Bird) LeBron James: Cleveland Cavs Yao Ming: Houston Rockets Barry Sanders: Detroit Lions Quarterbacks in football (and to lesser extent a great running backs, MLB, CBs, and DTs) can elevate a team to more wins. In basketball, we already know a great prolific scorer, great point guard, or center can maximize a bad mediocre teams outlook. If you head over into the GARM, that's what 70% of the posters are complaining about now, either crying about getting a superstar from a trade or possibly the draft, or pinning their hopes in some mid-first to late first rounders to blossom as quality players. The Giants are good team, but let's not pretend that they are a good team in the sense that the Patriots or Steelers are. They missed the playoffs the last two seasons, while they were freefalling in 08. Overall, they have continued to have a good record team wise, mainly because of Eli Manning. He's inconsistent, but they win alot of games, because of him. Out of the last 7 Giant seasons, can you even name 3 to 4 seasons that had a really good defense? Their defense is as shaky, if not more than he is. In fact, they range from middle of the road to bad. Moreover in Schaub's tenure, you are making it seem like the Texans have had over outstandingly prolific offense/passing games. It's been good, but it has been anything exceptional. Schaub's best seasons still pale slightly in comparison to say Rivers, Stafford, and even Eli Manning. Yet, that is one of the problems, he cannot stay health, yet when he does, his teams are still a head scratcher as a playoff contender. Moreover, he's still only .500 as starter, after 5 seasons. You say feel confident that they would've made the playoffs, if he played every game in 07 or 08. They were barely .500 with him in 08, and they were 3 games under .500 with him in 07. Trent Green, Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Donovan McNabb (in the last response, that you made no mentions about), Matt Stafford, Big Ben, Eli Manning, and Michael Vick of all people (who was considered and told on himself for being lazy and unprepared, he won 57% of his games with Falcons, while he was a marginal passer, a possible coach killer, and his team wasn't powerhouse). My biggest point with Schaub is he is not even the best of the 2nd tier QBs, I would give it to Rivers, Big Ben, or Eli. Additionally, you totally missed my point, I was showing the ceiling for great passers, while I was showing QBs who Schaub ranks well with, number wise. Most of all, I brought Brady, Brees, and others up, because they can make the playoffs with a bad to mediocre defense. The Texans actually had ok defense, middle of the road. Only finished 9-7 and he played all 16 games. Now, you are just being d#chebag with sore a##hole, it's not even that serious and you are just making garbage up. You probably need tampon worst than I do. I never trashed Schaub or said he wasn't a good QB, but I am not going to pretend that he is something more than what he is. He's in the same tier with Eli, but he's not better and I am not completely sure he would've won a Super Bowl by now, if he played for the Giants. That's speculative, and if you ask me do I think he could beat 2007 Packers, Cowboys, and Patriots consecutively. No. Same with 2011 Falcons, Packers, and 49ers. No. Not from what I've seen. How many good QBs can you find that didn't make the playoffs in their prime seasons or late 20s for 5 consecutive seasons (even with injuries)?
If Im embarrassing myself from taking Marino as an example that playoff wins are not the only thing. well what about this guy calling Eli the next Montana, why nobody said anything about him, that is a very stupid comparison:
If schaub had been hit as much as eli was against sf,he would've folded like a cheap as suit. Schaub is a kubiak creation. He can't make all the throws or throw with people at his feet. If not for kubiak, schaub would be anything more than a average qb.
