Say Roe v. Wade is gone and there's a non gay marriage amendment

I do. But I don't think one who opposes the death penalty and supports the legality of abortion is.

 

i wasn't addressing the worth of your cause or the value of your opinion....it's just that i've seen you post it like that from time to time...as if it's an absolute. it's not. it's not even the state of the law as it is currently in this country.

 

I have since changed my mind on both of these issues. I still feel the same way but my stance on how the government should intervene has changed. I do not favor abortion. I do not agree with the gay lifestyle. Thats my personal opinion. I do not have anything against someone that is gay. It isnt my right or place to judge anyone. I know of several girls that have had abortions. I didnt agree with them having abortions but once again, that isnt my place or right to judge them. I also do not think that it is the right or place for our government to say whether these people can or cannot have abortions or who anyone should or should not marry. I've been married for 8 years tomorrow and if two guys or two girls want to commit to each other I dont see how it is going to effect me one bit. Why does the government feel like it has to push its morallity onto its citizens? I teach my kids what I feel is wrong and right, not our governemt.

 

MB --

here's the problem with your argument when it comes to abortions. it's not just about the girls who have them...it's about the babies living inside them. in my view, it's not a matter of pushing morality any more than current criminal laws are regarding killing another being OUTSIDE of the womb. i'm not pushing any morality on anyone with my stance. i don't care what anyone else thinks is right or wrong on the subject, really. but if it's a human being...and you kill it....well...i think we already have laws for that.

 

But it's not the same. It just isn't. As long as it is inside them and it is a part of their body, not all will see it that way (especially the frightened, etc), it will be hard to FORCE millions of people to see differently, and that's what many are trying to do.

Personally I do not see the pro-life movement having much compassion for these women. Do you really not care if they think it is right or wrong? To me that is the fundamental problem. They need help. You do harm to yourself in the act of harming another. We all have to undertand this. Abortion affects everyone, not just the unborn. I think these women suffer, even if the suffering is not easily seen. To me it's the methods used to try and reach people that are the issue. I think threatening and imprisoning them, or killing them, is the wrong, counterproductive way. It solves nothing, and adds to the sufferning.

 

MM, we are on the same page. I dont disagree with you one bit. The fact is, its going to happen regardless if it is legal or not. If its going to happen, it might as well be in a way that it is safe to the women getting it done.

 

i hear that position a lot. but it's hollow to me, honestly. if we applied that logic to everything society deemed wrong, we could throw out the entire criminal code. virtually everything that's against the law is something that still goes on despite the fact it's illegal. but that doesn't mean that our society can't call it what it is.

look...here's my compromise. let's keep Roe v. Wade. but let's make sure that the health concerns that a woman has to have after the 1st trimester are legit. they can't be the ones Buck cited like, "i'm worried i won't be able to pay for my baby" ...or "i'm concerned how this baby will change my life"...or "i don't want others to know i'm pregnant." do that, get rid of partial birth abortions...and i'll shut up. i won't be completely happy...but i'll shut up. and then i'll support like hell the crisis pregnancy centers that encourage women to make an informed decision, and love them like crazy no matter what they decide.

 

I could easily compromise that. I feel like there are plenty of people out there that would be willing to take care of babies via adoption.

 

Especially true if gay folks were allowed to marry.

 

Synergy!!!

 

for real yo, we could feed alot of homeless people!

 

I have seen several times in this thread posters state that the fetus is part of the woman's body. Categorically not the case. The fetus is a separate entity living within the woman.

The fetus is no more a part of the woman's body than is the flu virus part of mine when I have the flu. It is a separate entity existing and feeding off the person temporarily.

The point is that the fetus being part of the woman's body is a flawed premise in the analysis of the issue.

 

Yes and no. Human boundaries are not that easily defined. The mother and fetus are a part of each other. Body and mind are one.

We may feel that our mother is one person and we are another person. But in fact that is not so. We are a very real continuation of our mother (and father). There is a relationship, a oneness.

The fetus doesn't come from nothing. We are part our mother and our father. We can not deny the connectedness. From no one, how can you become someone?

 

Yes, there are people who strive to adopt special-needs children.

 

What do you mean: minds are one? Any evidence of this? Any reason to pre-suppose this?

Simple DNA analysis will prove that we have two bodies with a mother and child. Hell, conjoined twins have different DNA....

 

If the mother does not want the child, the father should get stuck with it. Seems fair, right?

If neither want the child and nobody wants to adopt it in a nice evangelical family, I propose a coin flip between the mother and father.

 

Wouldn't it be a gas, if God that eternal jokester puts our spirit in our body at birth!!! Imagine the egg-on-the-face all of these pro-life Christian foot soldiers would have!!! But at least their heart would be in the right place when they inflicted their morality on others.

 

Meowgi, come on. You're speaking philosophically. We don't categorize human life that way. We categorize it be DNA, brain waves and beating hearts. Things we can measure. Objective things.

Am I connected to my parents...sure I am. But that's only because I share that viewpoint with you. We don't make policy that way. We can't.

 

i'm not inflicting my morality on anyone. it's not merely about morality. if this is a separate human being...and you kill it...we already have laws on the books for that. i don't need to impart any new morality or line of reasoning for that. we all understand that.

egg on my face?? come on no worries. the demagoguery is deep here.