Save This Franchise: Astros in despair, beyond repair

Again, what in the world makes you think Troy Patton is a really good prospect? Patton was a soft-tossing lefty without an out pitch. He topped out in the upper 80s, and even lower than that after he broke the 100 inning mark. Scouts have him pegged as a No. 4 starter, at best.

Look, I'd agree with you if the farm system sucked and Patton was a strong prospect. He's not. I'm not trying to say that it's OK to give away minor leaguers because the system sucks. I'm saying it's OK to deal away minor leaguers like Patton who project as mediocre at best, and the fact that he was perceived as the best of a bad bunch doesn't miraculously increase his chances of being a solid starter on a contending team.

 

I think some of those are stretches -- the core of the Valverde deal was Qualls and Burke, established major leaguers, and while I share your optimism about Villareal, there are still legitimate questions about him. Also, I'm primarily referring to the state of the farm system post-Pence.

That said, I completely agree -- the Astros have done an excellent job of late in turning these spare parts into legitimate major league talent via the trade market. Relative to their talent, it looks especially strong. I'm certainly not slamming the organization; merely the perception by some fans that a player like Patton must be a good major leaguer because he's among the best of a poor group, talentwise.

I think one of the most intriguing aspects of 2008 for this franchise will be watching the rookie seasons by those top picks you mentioned. Certainly, the biggest problem has been the lack of success in the draft -- from surrendering draft picks to a failure to sign draft picks to poor drafting in general. I'm cautiously optimistic, given the prior track record, of this new regime in scouting talent... can't wait to watch the results.

 

Upon rereading, the best way I can express myself is this:

If you guys think Troy Patton will be a good major league pitcher, that's fine. I disagree, but there is a case to be made. So, make it. Talk about his stuff. Talk about his numbers. Talk about what scouts think. Tell me about Troy Patton. I'm up for a good discussion.

But don't throw out abstract terms like "top prospect" and act as though that, in and of itself, means something. Terms like that are completely conditional on the relative strength of the system around him and speak little to nothing about his ability at the major league level. We don't have to resort to John Lopez arguments.

 

I'll agree for the most part on that.

 

It's worth following, but nobody should put much if any stock in anyone's SS numbers.

 

Well, it depends on the course taken. If they go for best available talent, which I hope they do, you're exactly right. But if they continue in Drayton's win now, get the most immediate help possible mindset, I think a majority of those high picks could be seasoned college guys ready to contribute in the minors much sooner than the norm. But obviously that mindset is speculation on my part. I suppose the biggest priority is Wade convincing Drayton to go against Selig and go beyond "slot money" on rare occasions...

 

This was exactly what I was thinking when I read this article. Move along, nothing to see here.

 

You take 4 minor leaguers with little chance to be an impact player and Luke Scott who is a 4th outfielder at best on a good team, and turn them into Miguel Tejada. Assuming Tejada's legal problems resolve ok (which I think they will), it can end up being a good trade.

I am not in the camp of people who believe in keeping marginal guys because they are the best of our farm. If you do that, what you end up with is below average ML talent overall in a year or two.

 

I agree with the "who cares we traded Patton sentiment". Remember at one time Wandy was a top prospect in our farm system. The same guy everyone is b****ing about now. Tejada is a proven major league shortstop that plays decent defense and is a great hitter. All you Tejada bashers will eat your words.

We might not be competitive for a while, but it certainly isn't Wade's fault for trading a bunch of mediocre prospects and building what looks to be a very solid bullpen and very dangerous lineup. We can only pray that Sampson, Nieve, Wandy, Paulino, or Backe pan out. We've got some other promising looking guys down in single and double A that will be ready in a year or two.

This is not football, Berkman, Lee, Tejada have plenty more productive years. All the doomsayers are just Yankees who love to pile on Houston teams, because they live in such miserable s***holes and have nothing to live for but their bought and paid for sports dynasties.

 

This is not true. Wandy never made any top 10 prospects list for the Astros. He was always a marginal prospect.

It should also be noted that according to Baseball America, Patton is the #3 prospect for this year in the Orioles system, and Baseball America has good things to say about how much the Orioles system is improving. He has also been ranked one of the top 100 prospects in all of baseball by both Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus for the last several years.

Despite what people are saying here Patton is and continues to be considered a very good prospect that manages to get scouts excited. It is wishful thinking to retroactively demote him, overemphasize his flaws, or claim that he is a bust waiting to happen. Everybody that I know whose opinion I have read that is respected projects him as a low risk very solid middle of the order left handed starter.

 

We may end up missing Troy Patton, even if he isn't a world beater. Because behind Roy O there be holes you could drive a truck through. I see us on the short end of some 9-6 games.

The biggie for me in the long view is can Drayton be convinced to not hold hands with Selig and sing Kumbaya and actually pay over slot on occasion for a
"can't miss" draft pick.

Roy, Lance and Carlos Lee are in their prime, Pence is ready to become that kind of player if he isn't already. We have to fix the talent pipeline, and we have to start yesterday.

 

If you're arguing that Patton has the potential to be a solid #3 starter, sure he does. He might develop into one. But his K/9 doesn't suggest that his stuff is anything special, and he doesn't light up the radar guns. He's probably not going to be anyone's ace, but he could be solid eventually. He could be the next Denny Neagle or Steve Avery.

Tejada, on the other hand, has won an MVP award and has made the All-Star team 4 times in the past 6 seasons. I'd say that his potential impact this season, in terms of wins, is alot more than what a Troy Patton could bring. There's a cost to bringing in a potential Hall-of-Famer, and unfortunately Mr. Patton was that cost.